Blm Opposition Protestors/protectors

Israel dont want peace, they want to claim all the land, hence building illegal settlements every single day


Afghan, I can tell you that most Israelis want peace and just want to get on with their lives like everybody else.

The Israel-Palestine conflict is not as black and white as it is often portrayed to be and if you look at the whole history you will see that injustices have been suffered on both sides and the only solution is to end the suffering on both sides.

It's always important to remember that the Ottomans controlled that area until WW1 and the locals did a deal with the west to break free of the Ottoman yoke. The creation of Israel was kind of inevitable given the deal done with Britain in the previous war. The only way Mandatory Palestine could have avoided it was to not join forces with the British to rebel against the Turks in WW1. Then the Zionist insurgency wouldn't have risen up against British rule, and the whole question of the creation of a state of Israel would have taken a completely different approach.

Even so, what kind of world would we have been if, after everything that happened in WW2, we didn't find the Jews a proper place to call home? If Palestine wasn't a British Mandate, then it's quite probable that a home would have been found in Germany, for example, but being that it was a British Mandate, it's hardly the fault of a group of people who have just escaped extermination to want to return to their original home.

People can spend day and night looking at who is in the right and who isn't, but in the end there's so much more to this situation than what people see on face value. That's part of the reason why I feel Trump's policy is doomed to fail. He doesn't understand the need of the Palestinians and probably never will, either, considering the man is quite literally a sociopath.
 
Tbh I prefer Trump as I can’t really stand the left and I will be disappointed if Biden is elected, but I think the left is losing the middle with some of their more out there ideas

I expect Trump to win again
 
Afghan, I can tell you that most Israelis want peace and just want to get on with their lives like everybody else.

The Israel-Palestine conflict is not as black and white as it is often portrayed to be and if you look at the whole history you will see that injustices have been suffered on both sides and the only solution is to end the suffering on both sides.

It's always important to remember that the Ottomans controlled that area until WW1 and the locals did a deal with the west to break free of the Ottoman yoke. The creation of Israel was kind of inevitable given the deal done with Britain in the previous war. The only way Mandatory Palestine could have avoided it was to not join forces with the British to rebel against the Turks in WW1. Then the Zionist insurgency wouldn't have risen up against British rule, and the whole question of the creation of a state of Israel would have taken a completely different approach.

Even so, what kind of world would we have been if, after everything that happened in WW2, we didn't find the Jews a proper place to call home? If Palestine wasn't a British Mandate, then it's quite probable that a home would have been found in Germany, for example, but being that it was a British Mandate, it's hardly the fault of a group of people who have just escaped extermination to want to return to their original home.

People can spend day and night looking at who is in the right and who isn't, but in the end there's so much more to this situation than what people see on face value. That's part of the reason why I feel Trump's policy is doomed to fail. He doesn't understand the need of the Palestinians and probably never will, either, considering the man is quite literally a sociopath.

I meant the zionist regime of Israel, you are right in a sense. Orthardox jews are against the current israeli regime entirely.

There will never be peace there due to nobody being able to stop Israel from taking land illegally.
 
Agree with basically all of that

But do you believe if Biden gets in it’ll be any different?

Your obviously fairly switched on, very if u are who we all presume you are. Surely you see that both candidates are as bad as each other (same as last election with Hilary)

Ive just been looking at Bidens and Trumps IG’s earlier tonight and it’s pretty pitiful from both of them tbh, just mud slinging and insults


I honestly l don't know if it would be any different with Biden. All I know is what it's like under Trump, and given the fact that Biden will do more for the environment, he's got to be the better choice based on that alone.

Yes, Biden might say some dumb shit, but when Trump says that science doesn't know about climate change, he does: it makes me realise we are dealing with one hell of a delusional human being at best.
 
Afghan, I can tell you that most Israelis want peace and just want to get on with their lives like everybody else.

The Israel-Palestine conflict is not as black and white as it is often portrayed to be and if you look at the whole history you will see that injustices have been suffered on both sides and the only solution is to end the suffering on both sides.

It's always important to remember that the Ottomans controlled that area until WW1 and the locals did a deal with the west to break free of the Ottoman yoke. The creation of Israel was kind of inevitable given the deal done with Britain in the previous war. The only way Mandatory Palestine could have avoided it was to not join forces with the British to rebel against the Turks in WW1. Then the Zionist insurgency wouldn't have risen up against British rule, and the whole question of the creation of a state of Israel would have taken a completely different approach.

Even so, what kind of world would we have been if, after everything that happened in WW2, we didn't find the Jews a proper place to call home? If Palestine wasn't a British Mandate, then it's quite probable that a home would have been found in Germany, for example, but being that it was a British Mandate, it's hardly the fault of a group of people who have just escaped extermination to want to return to their original home.

People can spend day and night looking at who is in the right and who isn't, but in the end there's so much more to this situation than what people see on face value. That's part of the reason why I feel Trump's policy is doomed to fail. He doesn't understand the need of the Palestinians and probably never will, either, considering the man is quite literally a sociopath.

I dont disagree with the Jews after WW2 being given a home as such. The land they were given, its 1967 borders yes. If you have a look at the current land they have gained its totally against international law. Infact, most zionists refuse to even confirm what they think Israels borders should be.

The problem is, nowadays nobody can talk openly about it in the media etc for they will be called anti-semetic.
 
I meant the zionist regime of Israel, you are right in a sense. Orthardox jews are against the current israeli regime entirely.

There will never be peace there due to nobody being able to stop Israel from taking land illegally.


Yeah many people don't like the current regime in Israel, but we could say the same about UK, France, USA, Germany, pretty much everywhere except for places like Canada and Finland.

And I know why you would believe there will never be peace given the history. It's not going to be easy to reconcile for sure. But just as the wounds between UK and Germany have largely healed since WW2, so will future generations forget about much of the conflict that preoccupied their ancestors.

In many ways what is going on in Israel and Palestine is a reflection of where we're at as a human civilisation on the whole. We love to marvel at how ingenious we are, but the reality is we're still dogs marking our territory out with piss before shitting all over it.

We'll evolve.
 
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I honestly l don't know if it would be any different with Biden. All I know is what it's like under Trump, and given the fact that Biden will do more for the environment, he's got to be the better choice based on that alone.

Yes, Biden might say some dumb shit, but when Trump says that science doesn't know about climate change, he does: it makes me realise we are dealing with one hell of a delusional human being at best.
Well Biden being their candidate proves the fact that they are just mouth pieces doesn't it, which isn’t really news to most people, but still interesting that it’s so obvious. He couldn’t even remember how many grand kids he has in one snippet of an interview I saw

And I wasn’t aware until recently he’s actually had two serious brain surgeries in the past. He’s definitely operating at a diminished capacity at this stage

I’m very intrigued to see how it plays out. It’s gonna be crazy watching the yanks tear each other to pieces
 
I dont disagree with the Jews after WW2 being given a home as such. The land they were given, its 1967 borders yes. If you have a look at the current land they have gained its totally against international law. Infact, most zionists refuse to even confirm what they think Israels borders should be.

The problem is, nowadays nobody can talk openly about it in the media etc for they will be called anti-semetic.


I think in a free society people should be able to talk about what they want. But given the history, it's also understandable that questioning the right to a Jewish homeland is considered a touchy subject for some. The problem is that politicians have hijacked the issue for political purposes, and so the seeds of discord have been sown at the societal level too.

I hear what you are saying regarding Israel breaking international law, but were the Arab armies playing by the book when they launched the 1947–1949 Palestine war? Put yourself in the shoes of a Jewish person who just survived the Holocaust and suddenly they've guns pointed at them again.

And given that both Palestinian and Israeli cultures adopt an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth outlook on life, I believe the only road towards peace is the Palestinians and the Israelis sorting this out between themselves.
 
Well Biden being their candidate proves the fact that they are just mouth pieces doesn't it, which isn’t really news to most people, but still interesting that it’s so obvious. He couldn’t even remember how many grand kids he has in one snippet of an interview I saw

And I wasn’t aware until recently he’s actually had two serious brain surgeries in the past. He’s definitely operating at a diminished capacity at this stage

I’m very intrigued to see how it plays out. It’s gonna be crazy watching the yanks tear each other to pieces


That's the remarkable thing about Biden: he's had two serious brain surgeries, had to bury the love of his life and his daughter after they got killed in a car accident, bury his son when he died of brain cancer, has generally been thrown the shittiest hand in life yet he'll still always bounce back.

That's a million times more inspiring than Trump, who got handed millions by his father and had it all laid out for him.

But yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. Neither side looks like they're going to take the result lying down.
 
Bidens been in government for about 50 years hasn't he? 8 as VP. Has he done anything decent so far?

Genuine question.
 
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Great post, straight facts.

Russia failed and then the US and UK failed to do anything in Afghanistan. Its worse off now than it was pre-war. The real reason for the 'war' was the resources Afghanistan has, namely Lithium and Opium
They fueled the worlds opium trade and probably still do? I think american troops spent alot of their time trying to destroy them, im not sure what was going on in Afghanistan pre russia / rambo days...il do some research i wonder if colonialism might have had a hand.
 
It's not about getting lost in the facts, mal. It's about the situation on the ground.

Yes, of course the overwhelming majority all want peace. But the west needs to learn that its missions of intervention have been wholly unsuccessful and have been simply fanning the flames or at best unintentionally making a bad situation worse.

Take Afghanistan, for instance. A common belief on this forum is they started kicking off amongst themselves around 40 years ago, but the reality was that the war started because of the Soviet Union's aspirations to spread communism there.

That didn't sit well with the USA and so America funded the shit out of the mujahedeen. Mujahedeen leaders were practically given a royal welcoming in America and they enjoyed both financial and military assistance on a massive scale.

I'm sure you can remember the time when the Afghanis were the good guys in the west and they even made Hollywood films based on their great relationship and kinship with Americans. Even the SAS and MI6 were helping them, so they were seen as anything but a problem.

Then Bin Laden, himself from a wealthy Saudi family who were intimately connected with the Saudi royals, and other Saudi figures present in Afghanistan, all went rogue and turned against America for perceived injustices against muslims in other countries.

So America's response was to bomb the shit out of the country and try to install a unified leadership in a land which is governed by warlord culture. They couldn't change it since the Great Game, there was no way they were ever going to change it now using that approach.

Same goes with Palestine. UAE and Bahrain were already at peace with Israel and were secretly communicating at the highest levels. All this deal was about was making it public knowledge, a move the Gulf Arabs were originally hesitant to make for fear of upsetting the Palestinians and Arab world. But it's a moot development in any event.

Yes, it's better to have people openly displaying friendship than at heads with each other, but to suggest that Palestine is going to forget the whole issue just because people hundreds of miles away are shaking hands doesn't even sound credible.

The reality is this is more about Trump picking the low-hanging fruit in order to increase his reelection chances. People in America generally know fuck all about the Middle East anyway and couldn't tell the different between Bahrain and Palestine or UAE and Saudi Arabia. All they hear is that Trump is doing the best deals in the history of the world in that region and so he's a master head of state.

Truth is Trump doesn't give a shit about what happens in the Middle East if it doesn't serve his domestic agenda. Hes' already stated an indifference to muslims killing each other, a fact many of you seem to have forgotten rather quickly...
what operations are you refering to here.
 
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