Bulking with CKD

CS86

Top Contributor
Ok who's done this?

I'm cutting with CKD atm (will likely switch to TKD soon, got some EAAs and malto I want to shove in pre and intra) and been reading a few articles about CKD bulks being great for keeping fat off. Struggling to understand how decent size gains can be made without substantial insulin release...articles tend to be quite vague on this, basically saying insulin isn't the be-all and end-all and there are plenty of other anabolic mechanisms available on keto. They also state a weekly carb-up helps with this.

Don't plan to bulk particularly soon but when I do want to break the habit of a lifetime and stay pretty lean throughout the process.

Thoughts?

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yer its good for bulking
about as good as driving ya car with the handbrake left on
 
Ok who's done this?

I'm cutting with CKD atm (will likely switch to TKD soon, got some EAAs and malto I want to shove in pre and intra) and been reading a few articles about CKD bulks being great for keeping fat off. Struggling to understand how decent size gains can be made without substantial insulin release...articles tend to be quite vague on this, basically saying insulin isn't the be-all and end-all and there are plenty of other anabolic mechanisms available on keto. They also state a weekly carb-up helps with this.

Don't plan to bulk particularly soon but when I do want to break the habit of a lifetime and stay pretty lean throughout the process.

Thoughts?

Posted using TMuscle App
Not optimal imo.

Balance is key
 
When a person diets they will usually drop the ratio of at least one macronutrient down considerably.

I personally drop my fats down so my p/c/f ratio is like 30% 60% 10%.

So when trying to put on size (fuck the term bulking it is stupid and just means getting fat lol) i just creep up the fats (and therefore calories) to make the ratio more towards 25% 55% 20% . Protein usually comes down a bit too. Not by much though; 20g protein daily drop.

So for your style of diet it seems as though you are deficient in carbs so if I were you I would creep the carbs up slowly and steadily over a long number of weeks.

At the end of the day, the human body HATES rapid change and doesnt really respond well to it. Throw a ton of alcohol at it and you end up with a dirty hangover. Throw a ton of bacteria at it and it develops an infection. Throw a ton of carbs at it when you have been doing keto style and it will just retain a ton of fat and water. So small changes in increments IMO.

Increase by like 20g carbs a day for a fortnight. Keep a track on body composition and weight. Then reassess and maybe creep up carbs more.

Are you doing cardio? If so then reduce each cardio session by like 10min until you are not doing much.

Small, calculated changes and nothing too drastic. Just like landing an aeroplane :)
 
I tried this for about three months and it was terrible - when in a calorie deficit if my dietary fat is high I can cut fine, but find an almost total reversal when in a calorie excess and I seem to gain fat more quickly, especially around the abdomen and the under side of my pecs. It basically seemed like of the excess kcals I was ingesting a higher proprtion of them were being stored as fat than muscle compared to a calorie equivalent lower dietary fat bulk.
 
Not looking like a good idea then lol...I suspected as much. cheers fellas

My current macros are 260g pro 110g fat sub 30g carbs

Planning on introducing malto next week, 20g pre and 20g intra, and will lower fats to compensate

Do this for 3-4 more weeks at least, i'll carry on til happy with fat loss basically

Then when I'm phasing carbs back in to bulk...

Increase pre and intra malto first. Then add in carbs where? Postworkout onwards? and work my way backwards so breakfast is the very last meal to have carbs added? (may stick with just a pro/fat brekkie actually given the research)

@Hilly
@hsmann87
@Dtlv

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Holy fuck, 30g carbs?! I feel for you lol. Here is my thinking:

1. Bollocks to malto. It is a powder so tastes shit. Eat your carbs so you can actually get some protein from the carb source as well as some satiety and fibre.
2. Not enough research to back up meal timing and in my experience its not as great as John Meadows hypes it up to be.
3. Your current p/c/f ratio is 65% 8% 28% and 1,600 cals (again, holy fuck :no::rofl:). I would increase overall cals slightly to 1750 and would drop fats down to 80g and up carbs to 100g so new macros are 260/100/80 and % ratio 59% 23% 18%
4. I would have my highest carb (and calorie) meal before bed. Something like a load of oats and some whey iso. The worst thing when on low calories and dieting is shit sleep due to low calories and always being hungry so getting crappy sleep. For me, main priority is increasing seratonin levels so I can actually sleep well for a change (that is something I agree with John Meadows on tbh).

DISCLAIMER - this is all under the assumption that you aren't doing any cardio. If you are doing cardio, I would keep your current intake as it is and just phase the cardio out of over the next fortnight and then start messing with the food. No point throwing too much change at the body. If you drop cardio you are automatically effectively taking in more calories by not eating any more since you are burning less from less cardio. If you then drop cardio AND add in calories you are giving your body a double whammy of intake and you will likely accumulate fat.
 
Not looking like a good idea then lol...I suspected as much. cheers fellas

My current macros are 260g pro 110g fat sub 30g carbs

Planning on introducing malto next week, 20g pre and 20g intra, and will lower fats to compensate

Do this for 3-4 more weeks at least, i'll carry on til happy with fat loss basically

Then when I'm phasing carbs back in to bulk...

Increase pre and intra malto first. Then add in carbs where? Postworkout onwards? and work my way backwards so breakfast is the very last meal to have carbs added? (may stick with just a pro/fat brekkie actually given the research)

@Hilly
@hsmann87
@Dtlv

Posted using TMuscle App
Add in carbd pre meal, post meal and meal after post 40-50g each imo
 
Holy fuck, 30g carbs?! I feel for you lol. Here is my thinking:

1. Bollocks to malto. It is a powder so tastes shit. Eat your carbs so you can actually get some protein from the carb source as well as some satiety and fibre.
2. Not enough research to back up meal timing and in my experience its not as great as John Meadows hypes it up to be.
3. Your current p/c/f ratio is 65% 8% 28% and 1,600 cals (again, holy fuck :no::rofl:). I would increase overall cals slightly to 1750 and would drop fats down to 80g and up carbs to 100g so new macros are 260/100/80 and % ratio 59% 23% 18%
4. I would have my highest carb (and calorie) meal before bed. Something like a load of oats and some whey iso. The worst thing when on low calories and dieting is shit sleep due to low calories and always being hungry so getting crappy sleep. For me, main priority is increasing seratonin levels so I can actually sleep well for a change (that is something I agree with John Meadows on tbh).

DISCLAIMER - this is all under the assumption that you aren't doing any cardio. If you are doing cardio, I would keep your current intake as it is and just phase the cardio out of over the next fortnight and then start messing with the food. No point throwing too much change at the body. If you drop cardio you are automatically effectively taking in more calories by not eating any more since you are burning less from less cardio. If you then drop cardio AND add in calories you are giving your body a double whammy of intake and you will likely accumulate fat.

Sorry bud calcs a bit off there

My macros are 260p/110gf/sub 30c (typical falls between 20-30g per day, just incidentals from nuts, nut butters and whey concentrate etc) so that gives me 2130-2200 cals per day (i increase sometimes, yday had high volume leg sesh n fair bit of cardio, so upped cals to 2500, all extra cals from fats)

Im doing cardio pretty much every day, 45mins fasted, only skip a day's cardio if my legs are shagged from training

Good point about the malto - got it for it's performance benefits really, quick absorption with the EAAs

Any suggestions for solid food carbs to eat peri workout for TKD? (and no to choc digestives before you say lol...id eat one id have the whole packet!)

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Add in carbd pre meal, post meal and meal after post 40-50g each imo

Is this how you bulk Hilly? Carbs pre (assume intra too?) pwo and ppwo, all other meals pro/fat?

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Sorry bud calcs a bit off there

My macros are 260p/110gf/sub 30c (typical falls between 20-30g per day, just incidentals from nuts, nut butters and whey concentrate etc) so that gives me 2130-2200 cals per day (i increase sometimes, yday had high volume leg sesh n fair bit of cardio, so upped cals to 2500, all extra cals from fats)

Im doing cardio pretty much every day, 45mins fasted, only skip a day's cardio if my legs are shagged from training

Good point about the malto - got it for it's performance benefits really, quick absorption with the EAAs

Any suggestions for solid food carbs to eat peri workout for TKD? (and no to choc digestives before you say lol...id eat one id have the whole packet!)

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why are you worrying about taking something intra workout?!

total gastric emptying takes like 3-5 hours so provided you eat something carb rich 90minutes before the gym you will be fine.

either way that's a shit ton of cardio. i would personally drop it to only 3 sessions per week for 2 weeks and then for the next 2 weeks drop the rest. only then (after a month) would I start to increase the food

and yeah. choc digestives all the way :D
 
why are you worrying about taking something intra workout?!

total gastric emptying takes like 3-5 hours so provided you eat something carb rich 90minutes before the gym you will be fine.

either way that's a shit ton of cardio. i would personally drop it to only 3 sessions per week for 2 weeks and then for the next 2 weeks drop the rest. only then (after a month) would I start to increase the food

and yeah. choc digestives all the way :D

Intra to take advantage of sharp insulin spike mate, plus quick absorption and utilisation around workout keeps me in ketosis. Theory behind TKD at least. @Righty bit of malto around workout for TKD sound ok?

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@hsmann87 agree cardio's a lot

Im like powerhouse i actually love cardio n struggle letting it go :/

know i need to though

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for me personally i like eating fats pro more that carbs pro, but i look better on the latter
id love to eat eggs and fatty meat all day but i do look crap on it tbh, i always cut and bulk better with carbs in the mix thats for sure
i find low fat when bulking better, you go to bed bloated mind due to carbs but each day see improvemnts, if you find the right balance but this takes time
 
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