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First Cycle (advice/feedback Please)

Discussion in 'Anabolic Steroids & Prohormones' started by Blackhand, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. Blackhand

    Blackhand

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    Hello,

    Only just made an account today but I've been reading the forum for a few months now. After about a year of deliberating I've decided I'm in.

    I'm 27, 171cm, 181lb & 20% body fat, I started the year at 149lb & 11% bodyfat, fed up feeling tiny I decided to spend 2018 bulking naturally. I've been working out between 20-25 hours a week for three years now, powerlifting competitively since January 2018.

    My diet is varied and clean and mostly vertical (Stan Efferding). 90% or so of my workouts are always large compound movements, always barbell.

    I've had my blood work done and everything came back normal minus elevated serum creatinine levels but that was put down to eating a lot of steak and spending most of my free time in a gym.

    20% is as high as I'm happy my bodyfat getting, so I'll be staying at maintenance for a little while before dropping back down to 12-15% bodyfat.

    Current bulking macros, roughly 2920 kcal
    • Protein: 210g
    • Carbs: 352g
    • Fat: 120g
    Intended cutting macros, roughly 2670 kcal
    • Protein: 260g
    • Carbs: 250g
    • Fat: 70g
    Current & Intended Supplementation:
    • 9,000IU VitD
    • 6,000mg FishOil
    • 400mg Magnesium Citrate
    • 15mg Zinc
    • 0.75mg Copper
    Planed First Time Cycle:

    Wk 1-10 Test Enanthate 300mg each week (two injections of 150mg)
    Wk 1-15 Nolvadex 20mg each day
    Wk 12-15 Clomid (Starting 14 days after last shot of Test E)

    Day 1: 300mg Clomid
    Day 2-11: 100mg Clomid
    Day12-21: 50mg Clomid

    My Questions:
    • For a first time cycle does this make sense?
    • Is 300mg a week simply too low to notice any impact?
    • Is Test E sufficient to stave of muscle catabolism while in a mild deficit if protein is sufficiently high?
    • If the answer to the previous question is Yes, is 300mg sufficient or is more needed?

    Thank you in advance!
     
    Simon and Greedy Ben like this.


  2. Greedy Ben

    Greedy Ben Top Contributor

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    Training Log:
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    Working out 20-25hrs a week?

    Usual first cycle is 500/wk but you will notice 300wk although may be a little disappointed in the subtlety of the effect. Plus if UGL actual dose could well be lower.
    I haven't got much experience but a bigger dose of 500 is more weight gained, more water too but will help strength slightly more.
    When you come off you will lose some size/strength too.

    I think a better way to look at it is ask yourself if you are willing to commit for the long haul.

    Edit

    Would have nolva on hand or make sure you can get access to pretty quick if needed but prob won't on that dose, esp not on cycle.


    To answer questions

    Yes
    No
    Yes
    Yes but maybe not worth it for just 10/12wks.

    Get a log up, just as many on here into PL as BB and although quiet there is a much bigger pool of knowledge vs bullshit :lol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    jrichards30 and Blackhand like this.
  3. Robbie

    Robbie Top Contributor

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    Save the drugs for when you’re in a surplus. What most people think is muscle loss on a diet is fat and water.
     
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  4. Greedy Ben

    Greedy Ben Top Contributor

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    Missed that bit!

    @Blackhand don't bother if you are going to be dropping cals/strength.

    Are you trying to squeeze down into 74/75's?
     
    Blackhand likes this.
  5. FATBOY

    FATBOY Age is just a number Competitor

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    I would up it to 500mg per week you wont reap the full benefit @300
     
    Blackhand likes this.
  6. pooley1810

    pooley1810 Top Contributor

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    How do you track your macros?
    And test you bf?
    Adding over 2 stone and a lot of fat on those cals whilst training over 3 hours a day doesn’t seem right to me
    Especially as you say your diet is clean
    Have you had your test level checked?
    If your natural test is very low then 300mg of test may only put you just above natural levels, especially if it’s poor quality gear
    I agree with what’s been said
    Get yourself leaner through diet, then use 500mg a week to add some lean mass.
    Personally, I prefer an AI over a serm as it will bring estrogen down rather than just stop it binding. Start with 0.5mg Adex x2 weekly and ditch the nolva
    I completely disagree with the assumption pct should start 2 weeks after. It’s just something people pluck off the internet. Long ester test will be active around 4 weeks after, pct won’t work with it still in the body.
    300 clomid is way too much
    Pct drugs are a lot more harmful than adding a little synthetic test, use as little as poss if at all
     
    noel, jrichards30, Robbie and 3 others like this.
  7. Blackhand

    Blackhand

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    Thanks for the feedback everyone, really appreciate it.

    Is there a log subforum somewhere? I'm sure I saw one at one point but I couldn't for the life of me find it last night when I was posting this and just wanted to get it written. I workout 5 days a week, usually twice a day since may 2015, I've a flexible job and live 250 miles from all my friends and family, lifting is all I do & it keeps me sane.

    I'm basically a little paranoid, 2018 is the first year I've spent attempting to bulk, the previous two I sat in a mild deficit for the whole 24 months. Essentially spending the last 10 months bulking has put me way out of my comfort zone and it's been really challenging watching myself get bigger. Strength gains have been excellent, I've put 32.5kg on my bench, 20kg on my squat and 15kg on my deadlift. It's felt like beginner gains all over again.

    I'm paranoid about losing the muscle basically, it's been a really difficult year and I don't want to see it wasted.


    At the moment I'm just wanting to drop bodyfat to a level I'm psychologically happy with before bulking up again.

    My coach is 2 time IPF gold medalist but very anti AAS so he can't help on this front.

    My diet beyond my macros is set in stone, any changes are recorded with MyFitnessPal. If it doesn't have a bar-code or doesn't come up in the search I don't eat it. That's the plan although what you're saying may suggest I'm deviating more than I realize.
    I had my test checked recently, 14.9 nmol/l which I think puts me smack in the middle of "average".
    That's exactly what I did! I plucked the 2 weeks pct off the internet, it came up on a few sites stickies so it seemed sensible.
    I'm fairly confident I can drop the bodyfat without too much trouble and quickly, 15% is where I easily wound up when I first started exercising and where I kept getting stuck at.
    For calculating bodyfat I've taken the average from calipers and a dexa scan the gyms, electrolysis machine is also around the same %.

    I was primarily using this first cycle to see how my body tolerates test, should I wait till I'm in a surplus before running this test? I'm not particularly bothered about "gains" over the next few months. I've the next 4 years of training reasonably planned as much as you can plan that far in advance, I'm in this for the long haul.
     
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  8. Greedy Ben

    Greedy Ben Top Contributor

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    Training Log:
    Click Here
    https://www.tmuscle.co.uk/forums/training-logs.12/

    You need to have a certain amount of posts for private section access.

    Theres a mix in both forums though.

    Your body will like the test!


    My thinking is go on and stay on, sounds like you live like a pro so would expect some big gains, be a shame to come off and pct to lose them then start all over again and I think you'd get pissed off with it tbh.

    I've been 'on' since late April. Lifts were pretty stagnant before. 17.5kg up on bench so far and 15kg up on deads even with on/off back issue.
    Definitely given me more focus and motivation training wise even with sub adquate training/sleep due to work/family.
     
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  9. Blackhand

    Blackhand

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    Thanks man. Liking the test is what I'm wanting to figure out, I've a really addictive personality which used to be focused on drugs and drinking before I found lifting. Like so many others lifting quite literally saved my life although most of them probably didn't try offing themselves in a club toilet. It's been three years since I touched a drug and I have beer or two every few months if that, all I do is work and lift and I couldn't' be happier.

    I appreciate the kindness, most people just see it as an obsession, the positivity is refreshing. I'm currently sitting at 4th in Scotland with only 9 months powerlifting for my weight, haven't done a sanctioned comp yet only a bunch of local IPF rules meets. I've planned adding 100kg to my total in the next four years basically, 25kg a year sounds easy when I say it like that!

    Because of the addictive personality I purposely try and curb it, i.e going for 300mg over 500mg.

    Largely I just want to protect as much muscle as I can on this cut and without ever having tried any AAS I decided to try and be sensible and start with test to see how I react before I start using anything specifically to retain muscle.
     
    Greedy Ben likes this.
  10. huntingground

    huntingground Pencillus Maximus Competitor

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    1. Get a log up with some pics.
    2. Start pinning 500mg Test E pw from a decent lab, one jab, AI if needed, 500 cals surplus. Plenty of fluids/rest/sleep.
    3. Put vids up of lifts and workout very hard. I'm suggesting you are not working out intensively enough to be able to workout for so many hours a week. I was in gym for 45mins yesterday, pulled 280KG DL and have been totally drained and fooked ever since. I'll SQ on Tuesday I think. What does your coach say about 25hrs a week in the gym?
    4. Put up a pic every week and people can assess whether you are putting on fat and to tune the diet.
    5. If you only put on 25kg in total across all the 3 lifts for your first year of gear, something is very wrong. What are your current lifts?
     
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  11. Greedy Ben

    Greedy Ben Top Contributor

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    I wouldn't worry about weight or bf.
    I doubt you'll get any fatter, weight will go up as you'll get a bit of water weight but that will go when you come off for pct or dip onto lower dose crusie. Strength will rocket regardless.

    Most of us have been into drink and rec drugs, seems to be a bit of a recurring theme here :lol:
    Lifting weights keeps a lot of people out of trouble and helps give them something else to occupy their free time!

    I know it's a big place but theres quite a few guys on here from Scotland.
     
  12. Robbie

    Robbie Top Contributor

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    You’re just going to switch one lot of drugs for another, just be prepared that you’ll start off with only doing x amount of test and before you know it you’ll be buying weird untested peptides from unknowns on the internet.
     
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  13. Fatbrah

    Fatbrah TMuscle Fatministrator Top Contributor

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    Or dont switch at all n do them all:rofl:
     
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  14. Blackhand

    Blackhand

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    1. Will do now I've seen the link, thank you @Greedy Ben
    2. After speaking to my coach we're intending on dropping from 82.6kg down to 80kg and holding there as my maintenance. Is there any point in using the Test E during this period? Money isn't an issue.
    3. tldr: I spend between 20-25 hours in the gym, not working out. Full(ish explanation below if you want it)!

    I spend around an hour doing some light mobility work (not flexibility work) addressing any issues before I move into the main lifts, at the moment I'm comp squatting 3 times a week, pulling comp (sumo) twice a week, comp benching twice a week and pulling conventional once a week ++ 2-3 assistance movements a workout. To give you a sense of it my workout on the 15th consisted of 38 sets of comp lifts + 5 sets of assistance work with an average rest of 2 minutes (it varies between intensity of lift & movement). The workout alone was around 90 minutes, + my 60 minutes of mobility + 60 minutes contrast heat/cold treatment. I try and keep my gym time to no more than four hours but it creeps up. The primary reason for the length mobility & cool down period is I spent since the age of 4 to 25 sitting in front of a computer for between 12-16 hours a day, and I still work with computers so I sit for another 8 hours+ a day in front of one. I've corrected most of my mobility restrictions (extremely internally rotated shoulders, inability to squat to depth etc) and now it's mostly for maintenance and I enjoy it. That and I literally have nothing to do outside of the gym & work, this isn't an exaggeration I moved 250 miles away from home to get away and fix my shit, part of that meant I've purposely not formed any close friendships in temporary home. I work and I work out that's it.

    4. Will do, used to be a big fan but I've fallen out of the habit. I've set reminders now.
    5. 25kg total was my natty desire. I've no idea what to expect with adding gear, more I'd hope. My best lifts were: 210kg sumo @68kg, Squat 170kg @81kg, Bench 105kg @83kg. I'm an awful bencher and my mobility wouldn't let me squat properly until a few months ago so all I used to do was deadlift which is why it's oddly high. My arm span is 11% higher than it should be, good for pulling, poor for benching & okay for squatting. When I pulled 210 my squat was only 140 and my bench was 70. I've spent 2018 bulking & addressing the discrepancies.

    Looking at my new macros to get my down to 80kg coach as prescribed 200p 260c 80f as a weekly average. Thoughts? This is only for dropping 2.6kg off which shouldn't take long before holding at maintenance for some recomp work. I figured I used to take drugs off strangers in clubs without second guessing it, doing lines in random flats with people I'd met for an hour. If that didn't phase me getting something produced in a lab really shouldn't either.

    You're describing my early 20s minus the AAS.
     
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  15. pooley1810

    pooley1810 Top Contributor

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    2.6kg should come off fairly easily with a few diet tweaks, shouldn’t take long at all
    Then add the gear in to improve your lifts and build some lbm
     
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