Fortitude Training (Review)

[1mike land]

Sounds like this is between you and your coach, @1_mike_land. One chef in kitchen.



-S

True., thanks Scott

 

[1mike land]

Hmmmm....
Usually a change in diet etc will be based on what's been happening previously

So if it's all been the same training previously then the change in diet should correlate to what's been happening with your body.

So if he is saying... based on what you look like now and the rate of that you have been changing in the current situation you need to change he this that and the other to see an improvement then I'd follow it and do as you have been.

Never work with some one you dnt have full faith in... doubting your coach this close to a show is a bad sign of things to come imo

Sit back
Let him take the reigns...
That is what he is there for surely?

This is true , maybe I should just to back to his the training plan he set up for me :/
Just miss FT lol

 

[1mike land]

I'm
Just gonna stick with FT
For me now it's a case of doing what I enjoy
And I'm working with Scott in August so il go back to ppl split after show I'm assuming Scott will have me on ft

 

[Con]

Hey @Scott Stevenson as a little clarity just to make sure we're doing it right. (seems silly asking this after several runs at this program but I will still ask!)
Pump sets 15-25+ reps, the only rule is no stopping during the set correct?
I ask because honestly I can go damn heavy on my pump sets because the last few years I have trained in a higher rep range.
Example; On the horizontal hammer leg press I can do an all out loading set with 280lb on each side of the machine (talking 8-10 reps grinding my teeth trying not to have my head explode lol). But I can do 225lb per side for 20 reps never stopping (just did this 30 minutes ago and spent next few minutes on the floor lol). But the difference between the load set and the pump set is only 110lb in total. This at least for me makes the pump sets much more soul destroying that the load sets. Is this normal OR am I supposed to purposely make the pump sets light but use ultra slow reps and so on to bring around failure using less weight.

Another example would be pull downs.
I can pull down 200lb for 20+ reps but once I go to 250lb I am hitting failure at 8 reps.
As far as overall growth goes I would "assume' the pump set would do more or is this false?

INB4 "This is explained on page 1! I thought you read this book several times!?!" lol

P.S. Loving the training now that I have a training partner that will follow exactly what I want to do and is very dedicated. Training by my self is not nearly as much fun lol

 

[Scott Stevenson]

Hey @Scott Stevenson as a little clarity just to make sure we're doing it right. (seems silly asking this after several runs at this program but I will still ask!)
Pump sets 15-25+ reps, the only rule is no stopping during the set correct?
I ask because honestly I can go damn heavy on my pump sets because the last few years I have trained in a higher rep range.
Example; On the horizontal hammer leg press I can do an all out loading set with 280lb on each side of the machine (talking 8-10 reps grinding my teeth trying not to have my head explode lol). But I can do 225lb per side for 20 reps never stopping (just did this 30 minutes ago and spent next few minutes on the floor lol). But the difference between the load set and the pump set is only 110lb in total. This at least for me makes the pump sets much more soul destroying that the load sets. Is this normal OR am I supposed to purposely make the pump sets light but use ultra slow reps and so on to bring around failure using less weight.

Another example would be pull downs.
I can pull down 200lb for 20+ reps but once I go to 250lb I am hitting failure at 8 reps.
As far as overall growth goes I would "assume' the pump set would do more or is this false?

INB4 "This is explained on page 1! I thought you read this book several times!?!" lol

P.S. Loving the training now that I have a training partner that will follow exactly what I want to do and is very dedicated. Training by my self is not nearly as much fun lol

Hey Con,

Well, uh... LOL

The sections on Repetitions and Failure in the description of the Pump sets (I'll let you find the page #) address your question.

The point here is to create metabolic stress and a distinct hypertrophic growth stimulus, different than the loading sets. From what your'e describing, the way you do Pump sets is more similar to Loading sets in that your'e doing a straight set, not trying to create an extended time under tension, specifically metabolic stress.

Using the glycogen depletion literature (which is scant) as a model, the metabolic stress will be a function of the work done during straight sets, but if you do holds, pulses, mini reps, etc. and slow negatives (which are metabolically less closetful per se, but extend the duration of metabolic stress b/c the muscle under tension is partially occluded, will increase the metabolic stress for a given number of weight x reps.

Think of this kind of like an Area Under the Curve phenomenon where you want an extended set with accumulating metabolites. If you were training someone for pain rather than performance, you'd be closer to a Pump set as I had intended them. The key here, too, is that you're also able to focus (via exercise selection as well) on activating a muscle in a way you won't using a heavier load for most folks (where synergists and stabilizers come into play). Take a set of 20 reps banged out on an incline press (lasting 50 seconds)

vs. doing a slow controlled set of 20 full reps on a cable fly (with perfect isolation form targeting the pecs) and with a brief pause in the contracted position during the course the set which in this case lasts 90 seconds, ending with pulsing reps, (which you can do as you are stronger on a negative vs. positive)

The latter is what I had in mind for Pump sets.

This is not to say that you won't grow doing them the way you prefer as well, but I think this method had benefits (e.g., improved muscle endurance and pain tolerance, motor learning to connect with the target muscle ) for many folks that they've not gotten out of other programs perhaps.

-S

 

[Robbie]

Hey Con,

Well, uh... LOL

The sections on Repetitions and Failure in the description of the Pump sets (I'll let you find the page #) address your question.

The point here is to create metabolic stress and a distinct hypertrophic growth stimulus, different than the loading sets. From what your'e describing, the way you do Pump sets is more similar to Loading sets in that your'e doing a straight set, not trying to create an extended time under tension, specifically metabolic stress.

Using the glycogen depletion literature (which is scant) as a model, the metabolic stress will be a function of the work done during straight sets, but if you do holds, pulses, mini reps, etc. and slow negatives (which are metabolically less closetful per se, but extend the duration of metabolic stress b/c the muscle under tension is partially occluded, will increase the metabolic stress for a given number of weight x reps.

Think of this kind of like an Area Under the Curve phenomenon where you want an extended set with accumulating metabolites. If you were training someone for pain rather than performance, you'd be closer to a Pump set as I had intended them. The key here, too, is that you're also able to focus (via exercise selection as well) on activating a muscle in a way you won't using a heavier load for most folks (where synergists and stabilizers come into play). Take a set of 20 reps banged out on an incline press (lasting 50 seconds)

vs. doing a slow controlled set of 20 full reps on a cable fly (with perfect isolation form targeting the pecs) and with a brief pause in the contracted position during the course the set which in this case lasts 90 seconds, ending with pulsing reps, (which you can do as you are stronger on a negative vs. positive)

The latter is what I had in mind for Pump sets.

This is not to say that you won't grow doing them the way you prefer as well, but I think this method had benefits (e.g., improved muscle endurance and pain tolerance, motor learning to connect with the target muscle ) for many folks that they've not gotten out of other programs perhaps.

-S

Oh! Not what I was doing either...

 

[Con]

Hey Con,

Well, uh... LOL

The sections on Repetitions and Failure in the description of the Pump sets (I'll let you find the page #) address your question.

The point here is to create metabolic stress and a distinct hypertrophic growth stimulus, different than the loading sets. From what your'e describing, the way you do Pump sets is more similar to Loading sets in that your'e doing a straight set, not trying to create an extended time under tension, specifically metabolic stress.

Using the glycogen depletion literature (which is scant) as a model, the metabolic stress will be a function of the work done during straight sets, but if you do holds, pulses, mini reps, etc. and slow negatives (which are metabolically less closetful per se, but extend the duration of metabolic stress b/c the muscle under tension is partially occluded, will increase the metabolic stress for a given number of weight x reps.

Think of this kind of like an Area Under the Curve phenomenon where you want an extended set with accumulating metabolites. If you were training someone for pain rather than performance, you'd be closer to a Pump set as I had intended them. The key here, too, is that you're also able to focus (via exercise selection as well) on activating a muscle in a way you won't using a heavier load for most folks (where synergists and stabilizers come into play). Take a set of 20 reps banged out on an incline press (lasting 50 seconds)

vs. doing a slow controlled set of 20 full reps on a cable fly (with perfect isolation form targeting the pecs) and with a brief pause in the contracted position during the course the set which in this case lasts 90 seconds, ending with pulsing reps, (which you can do as you are stronger on a negative vs. positive)

The latter is what I had in mind for Pump sets.

This is not to say that you won't grow doing them the way you prefer as well, but I think this method had benefits (e.g., improved muscle endurance and pain tolerance, motor learning to connect with the target muscle ) for many folks that they've not gotten out of other programs perhaps.

-S

Ok cool that makes sense!
I do the pump sets correctly the majority of the time I would say.
Just got over zealous with the set yesterday and went too heavy.
A couple weeks previous I did the same exercise but instead of 225lb I used 180lb per side and performed 35 reps to failure.
That certainly gave me a stronger pump!

@Robbie phew glad I am not the only one
I think it's just general meathead behavior you read "15-25 reps" next to the pump sets so you go "well if I can do 20 controlled reps I am right there where I need to be!'.
Not keeping in mind the finer points of the set.

 

[Robbie]

Ok cool that makes sense!
I do the pump sets correctly the majority of the time I would say.
Just got over zealous with the set yesterday and went too heavy.
A couple weeks previous I did the same exercise but instead of 225lb I used 180lb per side and performed 35 reps to failure.
That certainly gave me a stronger pump!

@Robbie phew glad I am not the only one
I think it's just general meathead behavior you read "15-25 reps" next to the pump sets so you go "well if I can do 20 controlled reps I am right there where I need to be!'.
Not keeping in mind the finer points of the set.

I figured that I get a good pump with a set of 15 with moderate weight so that fits the criteria! If I got 20 then that was a bonus right?

I have a feeling that 90second long sets is going to hurt somewhat...

 

[Con]

I figured that I get a good pump with a set of 15 with moderate weight so that fits the criteria! If I got 20 then that was a bonus right?

I have a feeling that 90second long sets is going to hurt somewhat...

A 20 rep set takes me about 80 seconds.
I generally perform reps pretty slowly.

 

[Guest]

A 20 rep set takes me about 80 seconds.
I generally perform reps pretty slowly.

Cud u do a vid of some ft traning mate? Wud be a good watch imo to see rep temp intestity etc n the diff rep schemes n all that

 

[Con]

Cud u do a vid of some ft traning mate? Wud be a good watch imo to see rep temp intestity etc n the diff rep schemes n all that

Well first I have to make sure I am doing it correctly

 

[Robbie]

Well first I have to make sure I am doing it correctly

I'd be interested to see a Scott approved pump set. Don't remember seeing any on his YouTube

 

[Con]

I'd be interested to see a Scott approved pump set. Don't remember seeing any on his YouTube

 

[Robbie]

Oh. I remember seeing that now and thinking "I won't watch that, what kind of idiot doesn't know how to do a pump set..."

 

[Con]

Oh. I remember seeing that now and thinking "I won't watch that, what kind of idiot doesn't know how to do a pump set..."

Don't feel too bad, I have been doing this on and off since it came out and still seem to do it wrong