Why the need for so much gear?

[Big Bear]

It was my attempt at a joke bear...sh*t i'm believing it myself now as 2 have already tried to stroke/soothe my ego.

I thought I'd cover both bases just in case lol! We are a funny insecure lot us bodybuilders and ya never really know lol

 

[maxjenics]

@bear and @Greyphantom...don't worry about me guys...i'm down with my bad self.

 

[kuju]

how much longer till the reigns are tightened because of idiots abusing gear

Absolutely - this is why i'm so keen to get the upper end of the UK bodybuilding community involved in harm reduction. There's a lot of messages that need to go out and whilst some people will listen to the likes of me...many will not because...i'm only 13.5 stone and 9-10% BF. So I couldn't POSSIBLY know what i'm talking about.... unlike the huge local dealer who tells people to site inject winstrol for their traps, tren for their calves...can't rememer the others...something like Equipoise for pecs and Test Prop for biceps.....because they have a specific affinity for those muscles. He also sells a "genuine pharma injectable PCT course...everything you need in one shot".

Sadly - THAT is the quality of advice in some places locally and that's what leads to people going off the rails. And of course now we have lads of 14+ starting to use gear..most of whom don't train and even if they did...so what they've barely hit puberty!! Gear at that delicate stage could knacker them permanently....but what do I know...I'm only ickle...


Time for the PIED community (or at least some good advocates for it) to get involved and help reduce harms before - as Big Bear rightly says - the government goes off on some knee-jerk tangent that is ultimately damaging for everyone.

 

[kuju]

the question i'd rather ask is why are people so concerned about what other people are running and what other people look like?


Surely it's best to just forget about that and concentrate on being the best you can be?

Well it's human nature for starters.... plus people who wish to compete..or at least go down that route in training...in BB'ing will obviously look at what other they aspire to have done to achieve their goals.

And some of us are concerned because some people are harming themselves and others....and if we don't address it - the government will.

 

[danny187]

Well it's human nature for starters.... plus people who wish to compete..or at least go down that route in training...in BB'ing will obviously look at what other they aspire to have done to achieve their goals.

And some of us are concerned because some people are harming themselves and others....and if we don't address it - the government will.

They do not address PROCESSED and **** food, booze or fags, so why would they address AAS

even if they do does it really matter, COKE is illegal and class A and is done by loads in local bars, that they even installed everything with slopes and no locks on door in some pubs

 

[kuju]

they wont though will they.... lets face it, the government could not give a flying fvck about the people of great britain....


Lets be realistic here.

They do when the Daily Mail starts running massive scare stories about steroids..and trust me that's pretty blo0dy close to happening. Anythign they can "take a tough stance on" that isn't a vote loser is something they will jump all over.

OOOOH No way? Drug dealers are peddling bullsh1t advice to their clients in order to sell products at inflated prices?


Sh1t the bed! Who'da thunk it!

this has been happening for years with reccys... they've been clamped down and tightened up... did anything change?

did it fvck.. more people died and got hurt because of ignorance and bully tactics from the government and the police....


I dont see the same happening again in this liberal society... Especially not with steroids.

Hmm. Ok - smoothly side-stepping the pointless sarcasm........ the guy I was talking about wasn't telling people this stuff just to sell his gear. He has no problem shifting large amounts. The problem is that he genuinely believes that's how to use it. SO he's passing on messages that are going to get some people into a lot of trouble with their own body. We know it's bull...but he actually believes it. (You should try talking to him...it's like running repeatedly at a wall)

Highly dubious..if not downright false..claims about the efficacy of a particular product are rife in just about every possible arena of human life - so your point about it happening with reccy drugs is..err....pointless. It happens with perfectly legal stuff too. Look at women's face creams with creatine in them...seriously...why....wtf is creatine going to do there? It's called marketing and yes it's BS. But that's not what I was talking about. Every dealer says their gear is best - of course they do (whatever the hell "best" means in terms of pieds).

It's not the quality assurances that bother me - it's the advice on how to use it, the combinations and dosages to use, the injecting advice - here's a classic.... when injecting MTII - hold the fvcking needle in for 10 seconds at the end of the injection. WHy? To stop it leaking out. That caused much bewilderment amongst every healthcare professional I know when we found it....

As for "did anything change?" a MASSIVE resounding YES!! Seriously...you genuinely believe nothing has changed? There are now a much wider range of reccy drugs available, much cheaper and of MUCH poorer quality than ever before. About a third of street level cocaine for instance is less than 10% pure. However it's not just that it's adulterated...if it was just benzocaine or glucose it was cut with that would be fine. But it isn't nowadays....things like paracetomol and tetramisole are being used to ultimately quite damaging effect. The effects of tighter and increased legislation are that MORE people with LESS scruples get involved to produce products for a market that is unlikely to go to trading standards.

The PIED market is basically much like the reccy market now...but with one major difference; you can't test any of it unless you have a lot of money (or unless it's HCG obviously). I can get a whole box of dip tests and reagents for testign pills, cocaine, speed, cannabis etc etc sent next day delivery for very little money indeed. You can't do that with PIEDs. So the more underground the market the more likely you are to get god only knows what in there.


Now consider this.......the reccy market is largely people who snort, eat or smoke their drugs. That route of administration offers a slight buffer to potential damage - even with the advent of the new so-called "legal highs" (although there again...many drug workers and A&E staff have NO idea how to treat many people who come in after using "legals"...because we sinply don't know that much about them).

But the PIED community tends to veer more towards injecting. That bypasses a lot of your immune system and basic protection. Damage the market further and we'll see much much sloppier production ...and then more people experiencing serious problems.

We need to head it off before the Daily Mail types start in. THat means doing something now. Because I absolutely promise you this issue is cropping up more and more and progressively higher up the public health and legislative chains.

 

[kuju]

They do not address PROCESSED and **** food, booze or fags, so why would they address AAS

even if they do does it really matter, COKE is illegal and class A and is done by loads in local bars, that they even installed everything with slopes and no locks on door in some pubs

One simple reason...."being seen to be doing something". They take money from fags and booze....., we actually have some limits on aspects of processed food now and there is some indication that we could...at some point...follow other countries that have (for instance) banned hydrogenated oils altogether. Cocke is illegal...and done by loads...and ever decreasing purity...and ever increasing penalties. They would address AAS if...and it is IF....teh press start banging on about young people doing them. We have a chance to stop teh PIED market from going teh exact same way as the reccy market....or not.


In fact maybe you're right - does it really matter...let's just fatalistically accept the fact it's going down the tubes. Why should it bother us?

 

[Big Bear]

the question i'd rather ask is why are people so concerned about what other people are running and what other people look like?


Surely it's best to just forget about that and concentrate on being the best you can be?


Nobody is truly that concerned for others, we all try and advise people to be sensible, whether we each follow that advise is a personal issue and to be frank, it's nobody elses business is it, same as if i want to go and out and neck 2 bottles of vodka on a friday night or go and smoke 50 fags... It's up to the individual as an adult to make conscious decisions and... if somebody therefore chooses to disregard the advice and go higher then fair fvcks to them...

If it comes back to fvck them in the ass then it's their own fault isnt it.


The laws wont change at all.... all of that is total scaremongering. It would cost the government billions, it's more likely to go the other way and be legalised and taxed as recent public opinion seems to be going...

Will the government enforce a law and cost themselves a tidy sum or will they go the other way and rake in a load of money and jump at another chance to tax us and steal more of our income?..... hmm i wonder..

Do they want people to live longer? Do they care about people's health?

Or do they just want our money in their poclets and less money spent out in pensions?

Look at the bigger picture.. all of this drug sh1t is only going one way.

Do you really think they will legalise it? The cost of regulating it would far out weigh tne cost of criminalising it! Steroid use is the biggest growing area of drug use! Harm reduction teams are for the first time budgeting the steroid users. Nhs are reported a huge jump in steroid related cases.
Easy solution criminalise it! Will it work? Probably not but that is beside the point public pressure will push it through. Yeah drinking and smoking costs the country billions but too many people do it to change the law regarding it, but it doesn't stop them tweaking and tightening the law.
No political party would propose legalising steroids jez there would public outrage

Oh and for the record I genuinely do care about other people, just because your selfish and don't give a fcuk about others does not mean everyone else is the same, I don't volunteer my time to work with the hru for ****s and giggles I do it because I want to keep people safe

 

[Big Bear]

Why not? Most other european countries are a lot more lax on prescription drugs than we are for starters.

You're failing to take into account the cost of the VAT on all purchases and also the taxes on the various corporations who would be producing the gear as well as the pharmacies or institutions selling it to the consumer...

It greatly outweighs any potential cost for regulating it, most companies would self regulate anyway and be open to government inspection, those systems are already in place... as they do when producing now, it just means stepping up production to meet the new demand, obvious benefits there could be opening facilities on these shores and creating jobs... a long shot with the jobs one though... lets face it.

Sure you're still gonna have to go UGL for your more exotic cycles but... I think this whole thing is greatly exaggerated on forums.

As for proposing legalising steroids, they wouldnt propose that... they'd sell it as a scheme allowing people to self medicate and therefore save the NHS or something like that.

I don't know... i just dont envision a crackdown at all.

There already is a crackdown! Sentencing on intent to supply has got a lot harsher in recent months with guys previously getting suspended sentences now actually getting time!

I don't fail to see the financial revenue in vat etc but that's not how the government works, it would take years of public studies etc before anything changed and tbh it's such a political hotbed due to the general perception of steroid use it would never even be proposed. Compared to the general public educated users is a very small group the majority of people think if you use steroids your dick drops of and you kill your family

 

[Big Bear]

ha i do a lot more good in my job than that mate, i earn my living helping people out of the sh1t but that's a personal matter, do i truly and honestly care if stupid people want to damage themselves? No i dont, that's their choice i can only go so far.. i dont see my self as a saviour or a hero... Especially not when it comes to discussing steroids on a forum, i just try and give sensible advice but at the end of the day you can lead a horse to the bar but you cant make it do shots... people will disregard you and crack on regardless as im sure you've found in the process of your volunteer work with the hru..... but hats off to you for doing it mate, credit to you for that

That was a bit out of order I appologise for that! I'm not looking for praise or a slap on the back for it you do tend to make sweeping statements and it got under my skin, but accusing you of being selfish was out of order sorry I know little about you and was wrong to judge

 

[kuju]

Just a quick comment re the possibility of a crackdown.....we get asked to act as "expert witnesses" in cases sometimes. Two..maybe three years ago we'd one request a year at best. So far this year we've been involved in about 8 cases and we have a couple more pending. Most are supply...and you'd expect them to crack down on supply. But there have been...to my knowledge....three successful prosectuions for simple posession this year. All being appealed of course because it's very shaky ground for the CPS...but still......


I'm not one for scaremongering - but I am sufficiently involved in this field to see and hear the way things are going long before it gets to the legislative stage. I firmly believe that a crackdown is very possible. Is it imminent? Dunno..... I doubt it. Depends on your definition of imminent I guess.


I do take your points @doink but there is little chance of them opting to make money out of PIEDs. Depends what happens next...but to believe it's a miniscule problem is to underestimate the number of people who are using. It is VERY much higher than many believe. I can afford to say that because I'm immersed in this...and yes it gives me a different skew on things I do appreciate that. But I used to provide maybe 1 or 2 training days around PIEDS a year. I've already got 3 booked in just 3 weeks of Jan/Feb and this year i've probably done about 15 round the country?

 

[JW007]

ha i know exactly what you mean with the public perception mate but lets face it, why would they bother to familiarise themselves with a subject which they have no desire to know anything about, it's much easier to cast judgement and whinge, it's the british way innit...

There's a massive money making opportunity there mate, once they've exhuasted the taxation measures currently in place then it's only a matter of time before they start exploring other options... They've milked cigarettes and alcohol and it's only a matter of time before these things start being proposed. Government now is less about the interests of the british public and more about milking us for every penny then can.

Mark my words, people have been talking about this for years and years and nothing has ever come of it.

Steroid use isnt as widespread as some would have use believe, i don't anyone else outside the gym who uses gear... walk around the shopping centres and you'll see maybe one or two other blokes out of hundreds and hundreds who look like they use gear.

It's a miniscule problem in the grand scheme of things.

Steroid use is massively widespread im afraid!

Think how many gyms in country, you will find a high proportion of gym memebers have or do use!

Nearly most Male adults who have spent any tme in gym during previous years have dabbled, to look at them you wouldnt even know they have ever even trained!!

Streoid use is Rife in every Prisonin the country!!

Nearly all sportsmen and all levels rangig from local rugby clubs, to pro teams, footballers, mma fighers, boxers, cyclists the list is endless, use some sort of PEDs!

If you speak to Jordan (xjpx) who went to loughborogh Uni where the up and coming GB sporting and athletic community are based, he knows most persoally and they are all on them!
When he played for England Rugby U21 use was rife!

Bodybuilders are just more more open adn its more obvious!!

The you have the Lap dancers that use to stay lean, the gang members who use because everyne else is!!

No mate, Use is unreal!!

 

[JW007]

Could that not be down to the new exposure though?

I never knew what a needle scheme was until i hit the forums? OBviously now i know the facilities are there then i'm going to use them,well in all likelihood im not but i know they're there and if i was a bit more health conscious then i'd damn well take advantage, why not?

I just feel people are becoming more open about steroid use, the internet has given rise to places like this where users can come and discuss information and obviously as a result places like yours receive much more exposure and therefore more people are likely to come forward for advice/help/to use the facilities and because of that you can expect demand to keep increasing i'd say.

I wouldnt say it necessarily reflects an increase in the number of PED users per se... although i am inclined to believe it is probably higher than it has been in the past as they're now a lot more freely available.

I honestly dont think this is even on the govenrments radar at the moment... there are much more pressing issues and much bigger fish to fry...

But then inspite of everything i've said..... You've only got to look at the whole mcat saga to see how ridiculous things can get if the tabloids get hold of things... So an element of care is required from all of us.

The problem at the moent is the Olympic Games coming up!!

The US puts pressure on china and other Nations to crack down on customes and things coming into the country, so UG labs are having trouble getting raws in and China are closing down the PEP factorys!

The US have officers stationed at our distribution centres checking for suspiscious packages!!

I know a lot of dudes doors that have been put in in recent times ordering stuff from china, its of course all political and all for show, so expect as like every OLympic year avaialability to reduce and cost to go up!!

Once Olympics is over, no one will give a fck again!!!

 

[Phmg]

The problem at the moent is the Olympic Games coming up!!

The US puts pressure on china and other Nations to crack down on customes and things coming into the country, so UG labs are having trouble getting raws in and China are closing down the PEP factorys!

The US have officers stationed at our distribution centres checking for suspiscious packages!!

I know a lot of dudes doors that have been put in in recent times ordering stuff from china, its of course all political and all for show, so expect as like every OLympic year avaialability to reduce and cost to go up!!

Once Olympics is over, no one will give a fck again!!!

But then, all the groups of people you mention there are minorities. Place all them together and its still only a few people in a whole town.

I got pulled over before with about 4 pots of dbol (all mine). They were on the seat next to me. I didnt bother hiding them cos they would always clock that and think its suspicious. Officer rightly asked what they were whilst having a look at them. I explained they were for training and you take them before training for extra pump and whatever. "oh right" was his reply then put them down.

These guys arnt even being taught about it let alone care, there are far bigger worries for them. He was far more concerned about my rear breaklight being out (and again rightly so as this is far more dangerous and i wasnt aware). I dont think anything will change.

Guy in my local city had literally a garage full of gear and got raided, they took it all away, and now he is "watched", thats it. No sentance, nothing.

 

[Scooby]

But then, all the groups of people you mention there are minorities. Place all them together and its still only a few people in a whole town.

I got pulled over before with about 4 pots of dbol (all mine). They were on the seat next to me. I didnt bother hiding them cos they would always clock that and think its suspicious. Officer rightly asked what they were whilst having a look at them. I explained they were for training and you take them before training for extra pump and whatever. "oh right" was his reply then put them down.

These guys arnt even being taught about it let alone care, there are far bigger worries for them. He was far more concerned about my rear breaklight being out (and again rightly so as this is far more dangerous and i wasnt aware). I dont think anything will change.

Guy in my local city had literally a garage full of gear and got raided, they took it all away, and now he is "watched", thats it. No sentance, nothing.

Or your guy with the garage grassed


Think point is getting the raw into the country will be made harder, police aren't going to target bottom of food chain end user for a while (when this comes about will be for convictions and police numbers, people trained for this stuff will be in customs investigating the kgs of raw not with local traffic cop searching gym rats with 20 dbol