Your deadlift theories please

[OldMember]

Who is that???
Why pick one example to contradict me, this is silly mate as there are always exceptions.
Just like you will find every now and again a guy with tons of back muscle but with a poor pull.
It is far more LIKELY to be a correlation with lots of muscle and big pulls.

I agree, I've always said that if you can pull / squat / bench so much, you won't have a small back/ legs / chest / whole body.

He is just a pulling freak

edit: I wasn't disagreeing lol I was just throwing tom martin into the mix because he baffles me. Yes it is suited but still look at his build.

 

[2004mark]

I did my first session of deadlifing last night for about 6 weeks due to sore tendons in my knees and literally loved it. I've been doing pulls most the weeks in-between, which have been good as you can add a bit extra to the bar, but I don't wake up in the morning feeling like I've taken a good beating like I do this morning. Saying that I managed 1 more rep on my pb weight last night than before my break, so although I would have progressed further if I had not had the rest, the pulls kept me in shape.

Personally im from the school of thought that if you want to get better at A then just practice A and not do B, C or D all in hope to combine B,C and D to aid with A...i could be wrong, just thinking out loud lol

To me that is one of those sayings that sound well and good, but in reality just restrict the use of an open mind.

 

[fitdog]

Well i have been doing rack pulls now for some time instead of full deadlifts to save wear and tear on my knee and my back has progressed like never before with heavy rack pulls i really enjoy them. Having said that if i had no knee problems i would concentrate on pulling from the floor instead so as to use more muscles and really help strengthen the glutes and hamstrings.
Also i always to rack pulls first, followed by some type of row then pulldowns and usually finish with a high rep set of seated cable rows really holding the contraction.

 

[Con]

^^^ Genetics play a big role, short back and very long arms like in Tom's case will allow for certain things.
Shorten his arms by 3 inches and things will change.

 

[2004mark]

Another thing i see is guys not letting the bar stop on the floor but either kind of bouncing/lightly touching the floor with it or going three quarters of the way down then back up again.

I was under the impression that a deadlift is exactly that, lift the weight from dead still position off the floor then putting down and repeating.

Any advantages to either style?

Yep I see the bouncing too... means you can use the stored elastic energy in your muscles and tendons to help with the lift, which isn't the idea of a deadlift.

Going to just below the shins could be a SLDL.

 

[OldMember]

To me that is one of those sayings that sound well and good, but in reality just restrict the use of an open mind.

I think it's pretty much true though. With the sheiko training, same with most the russian principles really - its just doing the same lift over and over and over, the idea being it's like cleaning your teeth, can do it with your eyes closed while sleeping. If you keep doing it, you will get better at it and your form will get better.

 

[Kaotik]

Deadlifts to start, they're the most taxing exercise I do for back so makes sense to do them first?

Not much point doing them at the end when I'm fcuked and can't put as much effort into the lift.

 

[2004mark]

I think it's pretty much true though. With the sheiko training, same with most the russian principles really - its just doing the same lift over and over and over, the idea being it's like cleaning your teeth, can do it with your eyes closed while sleeping. If you keep doing it, you will get better at it and your form will get better.

I have no doubt hammering away at the same exercise will make you stronger at it. But keeping an open mind can help... not deadlifting but I'd certainly love to have a session with this guy and listen to what he had to say (skip to 3:47):

 

[Tatty]

For me they all play a part. HEAVY rack pulls definitely helped with my lock out. In comp I sumo and this often means there is no great ripping it up off the floor and at the moment I have started doing deficits. I don't actually do full deads until 6ish weeks out from comp, I work on the areas I want to improve. As a sumo this is definitely glutes and hams. The dead 'variation' is always on a max effort day and always first exercise. All served me well so far. Yes my comp lifts are suited so training is adapted to factor that in.

 

[PowerMySelf]

^^^ Genetics play a big role, short back and very long arms like in Tom's case will allow for certain things.
Shorten his arms by 3 inches and things will change.

Agreed. Very much the case with a guy I know who struggles with squats due to his almost awkward frame.

Deadlifts always start the workout. Either straight leg half way down the shin, or deadlifts from the floor. Can't do the same version twice a week as my back will be in bits. Yesterdays workout was: Dealifts straight leg - bb curls/dips - Chin Ups - concentration curls/close grip press - Barbell rows - finish with reverse sit-ups (for lower back - literally no idea what it's called).

Tom's deadlift makes me cringe, I'd be popping all over the place.

BTW - I prefer to slowly touch the weight to the floor when deadlifting, stopping is fine but I see too many people drop the weight.

 

[Jim]

As a bber I'd say as long as your doing some form of deadlift that's fine, I never bother with rack pulls or any thing like that, just good old deads from floor and sldl only. I personally do them 1st in most back sessions, if I'm doing lays priority I may do them after weighted chins or not at all. I can't do deads and rows in same session so I'll do rows instead of deads on a lat priority session. When I'm doing rows instead of deads on back day I'll be doing sldl on legs or hams day, so I'll keep a form of deads in all the time! Deads and squats need to be there in one form or another

 

[phys sam]

Previous injury could/should play a part in exercise selection as well. A few of you have touched on this (fitdogs knees and crouchs back).

For example, someone might have a flexion intolerant low back (maybe a previous lumbar disc injury). Pulling lower from the floor or off blocks may be more problematic for them and in fact dependent on their training goals might be pointless as well.

Genetics do play a part. This could relate to arm length, leg length like Con said. It could relate to soft tissue flexibility (which in theory you could improve) or maybe hip socket and labral depth (which you couldn't).It could relate to disc morphology. Some people are found to have kidney shaped lumbar discs and some rounder discs. there is some thought that one type allows the person to tolerate flexion better and one rotation.


There are a whole load of factors which could influence someone's ability to pull a deadlift from the floor. I would say for the majority of people increased spinal stability is gained by maintaining a slight lumbar curve whilst lifting and learning to brace properly (this doesn't mean hollowing, zipping or any of the other stuff people are told by pilates instructors). Therefore good form means trying to maintain this as much as possible.

This becomes increasingly difficult with higher weights and this is where some lifters bodies are better able to cope with the flexion stress applied to the lumbar spine than others. I know some lifters round back lift (and there are theories as to why this even helps) but I would suggest that not everybody's physical make up allows this to happen without injury.

Then you have to make a decision on whether your individual training goals necessitate this increased risk. If your aim is to be a competitive deadlifter, then it does. however not everyone has the body to be an elite deadlifter!

Just thoughts

 

[Big Bear]

I never do full, always at the end and my own twist on dorians style

 

[Sacky]

RDL at the end of back day at present as I have a sore back.

apart from that regular DL at the beginning for strength. 2-4 reps Never bothered with assistance exercises other than RDL.

 

[Jim]

Just going back to the correlation between strength and mass, there is a massive link there and the bigger you are the more you will lift. That guy in the vid would be pulling more if he had big Ron's back! So IMO it's an individual thing, it's not the bigger of 2 ppl will lift more but if the individual was bigger he'd lift more. I at 107k can lift more then I could at 97k.