Ligament And Cartilage Repair...

[Clubber Lang]

Hi,
just after some help and advice if possible, for both me and my missus.

we both suffer from bad knees, my right patellar ligament has been playing up for a few years now, due to the usual case of taking too many roids, got too strong too quick and ligament failed. Ended up with tendonitis, never been the same since. Ive ran pharma grade GH, Pfizer and Ansomone with spot injections around the area, didnt help at all, in fact it made things worse with the GH drying my joints out and crippling me. I ran Pfizer first and just gritted my teeth. Switched over the to 10x 4iu Ansomone kit and managed 3 days back to back of 4iu then had to stop. I couldnt get up form a seated position, pain was terrible. Had to drop GH completely, felt so much better afterwards.

missus, shes got it worse than me. She used to swim for county and national level as a teenager and then going to uni and becoming a PE teacher. Now, her knees are fecked. Both of them. Shes in so much pain shes had to ditch teaching, knees sometimes just go from under her, she thinks its cartilage, or lack of it, from swimming and impact sports. She believes its the laterial and medial meniscus. The NHS treatment show far has just been an xray that they say doesnt help, so went to 3 physio sessions at a local hospital, all she got was leaflets of stretches to do at home, and had 2 acupuncture pins in each knee. Third session was reduced to 30mins from an hour. All 3 sessions were by different nurses who had to read up what the others had done while we were waiting. 4th sesh was cancelled. In other words it was absolutely shite! She needs a MRI scan to actually see whats wrong, but being 31 years old "shes too young" and they wont give her one.

Noticed a lot of people, as well as people suggesting, using Beta-4 for repair and recovery? Ive never used so know little, but im/we're desperate to try something to help with recovery. Im not taking any prescription painkillers but the missus is, quite heavy ones, but at night when shes not working. Both sitting on the sofa now with ice packs on our knees like a couple of old farts lol.

Would Beta-4 be any good for either of us? If so what is the procedure for usage and dose?

also ive now heard that BPC 157 is better, as Beta-4 is just an anti-inflammatory?

any help would be kindly appreciated.

 

[Big ian]

Beta4 aka tb500? Yes? If so then yes its a strong anti-inflamatory, for me actually this compound made me worse.

For me peg mgf has helped a great deal, bpc157 and igf1 lr3 (though the igf seriously aggravated my pre-existing gyno so not ideal for me) both seemed to have helped also.

Im currently in the final phase hopefully using mk-677 and ostarine for the last couple of months and hopefully i'll be ready for another cycle in april, gradually increasing the weights again at the mo.

 

[Clubber Lang]

Beta4 aka tb500? Yes? If so then yes its a strong anti-inflamatory, for me actually this compound made me worse.

For me peg mgf has helped a great deal, bpc157 and igf1 lr3 (though the igf seriously aggravated my pre-existing gyno so not ideal for me) both seemed to have helped also.

Im currently in the final phase hopefully using mk-677 and ostarine for the last couple of months and hopefully i'll be ready for another cycle in april, gradually increasing the weights again at the mo.

lol, just random words and numbers there for me.

 

[Big ian]

Lol ok, would take forever to explain it all.......google the following
Bpc-157
Peg-mgf
Mk-677
Ostarine

And then come back to me with any questions

 

[holly]

She needs to kick up fuss.
My sister had similar issues with her hip, giving out, intense pain, turns out she had arthritis in her socket or something
But she had a hip replacement last year at 31 years old so just be firm with the doctors

 

[Dr Angell]

@Clubber Lang thought I'd add my two penneth if you don't mind, based on my exprience as an S&C coach. I've had to deal with a lot of knee problems, particularly from a lot of the guys at the MMA gym I train at (Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is horrible for the knees!). My first suggestion would be to get that MRI. If you say there's been some impact injury to the side and tell them it's unstable (which it sounds like it is!) then they might suspect ligament damage which might prompt the MRI. Although I don't understand why they haven't given her an MRI already in all honesty! Aside from the 'medicinal' route you've asked about, there are some other things you can both do to help. For your gf - lots of eccentric hamstring work and stability work of gradually increasing difficulty as well as a lot of glute activation work (particularly glute med to help with hip stability which impacts on knee stability), this is all linear work for the moment and then eventually progressing into some lateral movement. For yourself - to relieve the tendonitis, are you doing any myofascial release/mobility work? If it's patellar tendonitis foam rolling the IT band is key and general release of leg muscle tension will help.

I'm sure you're doing much of this already but thought I'd add some info just in case.

 

[Clubber Lang]

@Clubber Lang thought I'd add my two penneth if you don't mind, based on my exprience as an S&C coach. I've had to deal with a lot of knee problems, particularly from a lot of the guys at the MMA gym I train at (Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is horrible for the knees!). My first suggestion would be to get that MRI. If you say there's been some impact injury to the side and tell them it's unstable (which it sounds like it is!) then they might suspect ligament damage which might prompt the MRI. Although I don't understand why they haven't given her an MRI already in all honesty! Aside from the 'medicinal' route you've asked about, there are some other things you can both do to help. For your gf - lots of eccentric hamstring work and stability work of gradually increasing difficulty as well as a lot of glute activation work (particularly glute med to help with hip stability which impacts on knee stability), this is all linear work for the moment and then eventually progressing into some lateral movement. For yourself - to relieve the tendonitis, are you doing any myofascial release/mobility work? If it's patellar tendonitis foam rolling the IT band is key and general release of leg muscle tension will help.

I'm sure you're doing much of this already but thought I'd add some info just in case.

thanks for your advice, always appreciated.
MRI is what my girlfriend needs but for some reason they are reluctant to give her one, instead they 'think' they can manage or solve the issue with physio work, which TBH, is absolute rubbish, two acupuncture pins in each knee was the most they did.
She needs to kick up a fuss yes, but her GP whos shes been with for ages has recently left, no it feels shes back to square one as comms between GP and the hospital has collapsed. Shes in the process of moving GP surgery as this one is terrible.

anyone recommend a place to get a foam roller?

 

[s man]

TK Maxx all have them near me matey as well as sports direct

 

[Dr Angell]

@Clubber Lang no problem at all. Not sure what else there is you can do apart from persist with pushing for further investigation. The only other option is to try and go private or possibly see if there's a sports medicine unit near to where you live. I realise that could be expensive but might be worth a look. I'm sure you'll get it sorted if you hang in there, not that that's probably much consolation at the moment I guess.

 

[Big ian]

Feel free to message us with regard to peptide usage, TB-500, BPC-157, OSTARiNE, LGD, iGF-1 LR3, there are a number of products that can greatly assist you, if taken correctly, if its a ligament, BPC-157 will help, but really it was tested for tendon repair, there is not a lot of information with regrads to ligament, but correct me if i am wrong Dr.Angell, they are pretty much made of the same compounds? Ligaments locate and hold bones in place, Tendons anchor the muscles to the bones in which they mechanise? If they are basically collagen etc then it should work, it needs to be injected into your knee though, it only works in a local area, TB-500 of course, amazing recupertaion and anti ageing peptide, it travels the blood stream so can be injected anywhere, TB-500 is always my choice.

OSTARiNE and LGD also good for joint issues, then any GH releasing peptide, or iGF-1 again will help but really TB-500 is your first port of call in my opinion.

Someone mentioned iGF-1 LR3 caused a gyno flare up, not possible, Gyno is caused by oestrogen binding to oestrogen receptors behind our nipples, our body converts excessive amounts of testosterone, or, higher than what it is used to into oestrogen which then binds, iGF-1 LR3 is not testosterone, its not oestrogen and it does not cause testosterone production or oestrogen production, not directly anyway, perhaps it will make your body function a little better than normal which may mean extra test production but not enough to aromatise and cause gyno issues, you must have been using something else with it that caused this, again, correct me Dr Angell if I am wrong.

Any issues with Gyno I reccomend ARiMiSTANE, its an almost permanent anti aromatase, stops test to oestrogen conversion, like proviron or arimidex, but lits binding affinity is far far superior. It can bind for years. it also reduces Cortisol levels.

Errr try googling igf gyno mate, it doesnt happen to everyone but it definitely has the potential to mess with it. Gyno is 100% not only caused by estrogen....prolactin is another for example.

 

[Dr Angell]

Errr try googling igf gyno mate, it doesnt happen to everyone but it definitely has the potential to mess with it. Gyno is 100% not only caused by estrogen....prolactin is another for example.

My apologies for the delay on this. As @Nucleus Research has mentioned tendons and ligaments as pretty similar in composition, just a difference in collagen content.

As for the gyno and IGF, there seems to be a bit of a mix in terms of information out there. As @Nucleus Research highlighted, it is related to oestrogen increases through either naturally high levels or through increases from aromatisation of Test. GH & IGF has been shown to influence breast growth as you can see here http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/9334728 although this is in primates generally so the specifics in people might be slightly different but certainly indicates there is some role in breast growth. This might not be directly through oestrogen receptors specifically, GH & IGF-1 up-regulate growth pretty indiscriminately so it might be due to higher GH receptors in certain locations for example, alternatively it might be due to some downstream effects that haven't been fully identified yet. Hope that helps anyway

 

[Big ian]

My apologies for the delay on this. As @Nucleus Research has mentioned tendons and ligaments as pretty similar in composition, just a difference in collagen content.

As for the gyno and IGF, there seems to be a bit of a mix in terms of information out there. As @Nucleus Research highlighted, it is related to oestrogen increases through either naturally high levels or through increases from aromatisation of Test. GH & IGF has been shown to influence breast growth as you can see here http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/9334728 although this is in primates generally so the specifics in people might be slightly different but certainly indicates there is some role in breast growth. This might not be directly through oestrogen receptors specifically, GH & IGF-1 up-regulate growth pretty indiscriminately so it might be due to higher GH receptors in certain locations for example, alternatively it might be due to some downstream effects that haven't been fully identified yet. Hope that helps anyway

Yep sorry i didnt mean igf caused gyno, more it agrivated my already existing gyno lumps which i got as a teenager....

 

[Dr Angell]

Yep sorry i didnt mean igf caused gyno, more it agrivated my already existing gyno lumps which i got as a teenager....

No problem at all. Yes one of the big draw backs of the use of GH, IGF and the like is that they are relatively indiscriminate with regards to what they target. Most of the body has receptors for these so everything is likely to grow.