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Fish Oil - Is It Worth Taking

See, Hilly, fats are fats. They're all combined enzymatically into identical triglycerides.

I can find no evidence that any one kind of fat is longer lasting in muscle cells than any other - they're all used as fuel in the same way...
 
I have to say I don't believe any of the supposed benefits of eating Omega-3 or -6 oils over butter, milk, cheese cream and olive oil, etc.

They're all fats: fatty acids with the COOH acid group at one end. The Omegas happen to have the COOH group at the Omega - arse - end.

Course there are probably trace elements like iodine and phosphorus in fish oils that may be beneficial but humans have been eating both saturated and unsaturated fats for millions of years and they're broken down in exactly the same way in the body.

All natural unsaturated and polyunsaturated fatty acids have their hydrogen double bonds on one side - the cis side.

Trans fats - fats made from oils by hydrogenation with a nickel catalyst - have their double hydrogen bonds on two sides, and cannot be broken down completely by the usual enzymes, so leave bits of fatty acid molecules swanning round our alimentary and vascular systems. Not good...

IMO with fats the important aspect is not so much quantity, it's about ratios between specific types of fat. In respect of this, supplementation is only beneficial if used to correct an out of synch ratio - but then getting the same fats from diet would be equally beneficial.

As for the actual health benefits of having a healthy balance of fats, it's a subtle thing with effects being noticed more in the sense of what doesn't tend to happen to you (lower risk of many potential issues) rather than some sudden wonderful feeling of being the healthiest human alive.

The mechanism of effect that lipids have on health is normally not the fat itself or any bound minerals, but effects on transporter molecules and receptor sites. While certain fats are required for certain structures, and very low intake can cause a deficiency, in most cases even a very low fat diet will provide enough provided it contains enough food to avoid overal malnutrition.

Us western worlders, who generally eat a diet high in processed foods and exercise little, often exerpeince a range of non pathogen related diseases, and many of these problems are closely related to and influenced by eating unbalanced levels of all kinds of nutrients.

We then take a supplement and, whoa things get better, and the supplement gets the label of a wonder supp... but in relaity we are looking at it backwards, and just correcting an issue with diet that would not exist if we ate a diet that was closer to how nature intended.

Very complex subject though, and as genetic differences between individuals considerably influence the magnitude of effect of a particular fatty acid on a particular physiological response, there's actually no sepcific one-size-fits-all approach to the balance of fats that each individual should take for optimum health.

As far as I know there have been over thirty genes so far identified that have polymorphims that each will modify the physiological response to intake of a particular fatty acid or group of fatty acids... the often knocked 'lipid hypothesis' of CVD disease makes a helluva lot more sense suddenly when these genetic factors are incorporated into the otherwise inconsistent theoretical model of disease.

The best approach IMO, since none of us can know our genetic variants without very expensive testing, is to minimise excessive reliance or excessive exclusion of any one particular type of fatty acid, to seek to maintain the very obviously beneficial ratios (as between omega 3 and omega 6) and to avoid artificially altered fats.
 
IMO with fats the important aspect is not so much quantity, it's about ratios between specific types of fat....

As for the actual health benefits of having a healthy balance of fats, it's a subtle thing with effects being noticed more in the sense of what doesn't tend to happen to you (lower risk of many potential issues) rather than some sudden wonderful feeling of being the healthiest human alive.

The mechanism of effect that lipids have on health is normally not the fat itself or any bound minerals, but effects on transporter molecules and receptor sites. While certain fats are required for certain structures, and very low intake can cause a deficiency, in most cases even a very low fat diet will provide enough provided it contains enough food to avoid overal malnutrition.

Very complex subject though, and as genetic differences between individuals considerably influence the magnitude of effect of a particular fatty acid on a particular physiological response, there's actually no sepcific one-size-fits-all approach to the balance of fats that each individual should take for optimum health.

As far as I know there have been over thirty genes so far identified that have polymorphims that each will modify the physiological response to intake of a particular fatty acid or group of fatty acids... the often knocked 'lipid hypothesis' of CVD disease makes a helluva lot more sense suddenly when these genetic factors are incorporated into the otherwise inconsistent theoretical model of disease.

Dr Malcolm Kendrick - sorry to mention him again, but he deals at length with your points in his book - rejects entirely the fat balance, lipid transporter molecule and genetic theories for CVD entirely.

He points out that these known mechanisms have been in desperation promoted and parachuted in to supplant the cholesterol/fat theory as it has been increasingly discredited and disproved.

He cannot find any evidence for them at all, shows how the trials have been bent against their findings to support the same old story and produces contradictory evedence by the authors of the trials themselves which they tried to suppress.

His hypothsesis on chronic pathological stress being the cause of CVD is absolutely convincing - and in fact goes back to observations of centuries back.

He maintains that diet is all but irrelevant to CVD, and I believe him.
 
Have read some of Kendrick's stuff and understand his logic - but also see logic in other models of CVD too that suggest very different modes of action but are equally or better effective at making predictions about CVD. The correlations between genetics, environment (inc diet) and other pathogens and stressors are so mind blowingly complex that at this level of scientific knowledge total understanding is not yet achieved. To entirely dismiss a line of reasoning at a time when there is not at all a total understanding of any of the processes involved is not scientific, nor wise IMO.

Don't get me wrong - Kenrick may turn out to be closer to being right than anyone else - but so far it just cannot be claimed to be anything other than theory as the total scientific body of knowledge his theories are based on cannot be said to be fully inclusive of all possible measurements of the factors involved in the subject.

Same criticism is true for lipid hypothesis, which in its full complexity is changing year by year as new evidence arises to refine it and nowadyas hardly at all represents the 'mainstream' interpretation of the theory that was first popularised, rather is seperated into several newer theories under one umbrella.

If all understanding was already there then life would be so easy... at the moment all we have are people making interpretations of available data and using that to try experiement to gain more knowldege and make better predictions.

I am always very wary of theories that claim to have absolute answers - they may sit well with the ego, but rarely represent reality.
 
Pharmaceutical Grade Fish Oil -- Why Is It Different?

Here's an article relating to dtlv's first point on quality of fish oils, seems decent quality stuff is hard to come by. The super omega 3 MP ones i use dont say "refined" or "pharmaceutic grade" only "extra filtered" dont know if that counts for anything.

Tbh ma heads burst after reading this thread, same with the PWO carbs thread for that matter .. This can get so confusing at times and you dont know what to believe. Could be wasting my money for all i know. Might not bother with either anymore.
 
IMO, when supplementing with anything, I consider the weight of my Wallet.

For example

If I can buy some fish oil caps for £4 for 90 that contains 300mg of Omega 3's or a fancy brand for £10 for 90 containing 600mg I can save £2 by getting the cheaper 1 and taking twice the amount.

Same with Whey isolates over concentrate, it's cheaper to take 50g of concentrate instead of the superior 40g of isolate, and cheaper.

Just the way I look at it, it's expensive being big, so no need to make it more so!
 
...it's expensive being big...

Certainly is!

I wonder if anyone's ever tried to work out the cost mansteak takes to produce per pound, taking into account the extra food, gym fees, travel.

And what the conversion efficiency of food is.

And what the maintenance cost is too. :)
 
i use flax seed oil from h&B so i think i'm ok

although ive run out :(
 
would it be better or worse?

Not as good as fish. Flax is a good oil to use for making mayonaise and salad dressings, but don't rely on it for your omega 3's EPA/DHA because it contains none of these. It has omega 3 alpha linolenic acid, but marketing like to just put omega 3 on the label as a selling point.
 
Fish oil is much better for health and specially for the man's health and I also use it some of the time's.....

Where are you from? I have seen a couple of posts today from you on ukiron also, you have a strange way of posting.
 
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