With all due respect mate IMO listen to Joshua he knows his sh1t!
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Question about ultradrol and pct
- Thread starter Jethro
- Start date
With all due respect mate IMO listen to Joshua he knows his sh1t!
Smitch
Top Contributor
I ran Megavol (superdol clone) for a week and it gave me insane headaches. I went to the docs and had my blood pressure checked and it was fine so christ knows what it was but i stopped the Megavol and the headaches disapeared.
It's a very strong drug.
It's a very strong drug.
kuju
Top Contributor
Tricky one - I know quite a few people who have have been more than happy with results from things like Superdrol and have experienced no noticeable sides (note the word "noticeable").
As for PCT - this one always foxes me a bit. I've seen plenty of forum threads suggesting several weeks of Nolva to work as PCT on a 4 week cycle of superdrol. I fail to see how it's justifiable to run 4-6 weeks of nolva to deal with estrogen issues from somthing like superdrol....seems overkill to me and likely to open up a raft of other problems.
Trouble is...firstly you need to know what's really in there (and i've seen plenty of analyses that show many OTC PH's/DS's are not what they claim..which changes everything). Secondly you need to know how you respond to androgens of any kind. I would personally base PCT from something like this on full bloodwork. why just take a stab in the dark about it? Find out what you're actually dealing with and go from there. There are a couple of OTC pct supps that i've seen working on people extremely well...Triazole and Esto Surpress for starters. And before I get flamed for not suggesting nolva....have a look at the label for Esto Supress....
If he's set on doing this then I say get blood work.
As for PCT - this one always foxes me a bit. I've seen plenty of forum threads suggesting several weeks of Nolva to work as PCT on a 4 week cycle of superdrol. I fail to see how it's justifiable to run 4-6 weeks of nolva to deal with estrogen issues from somthing like superdrol....seems overkill to me and likely to open up a raft of other problems.
Trouble is...firstly you need to know what's really in there (and i've seen plenty of analyses that show many OTC PH's/DS's are not what they claim..which changes everything). Secondly you need to know how you respond to androgens of any kind. I would personally base PCT from something like this on full bloodwork. why just take a stab in the dark about it? Find out what you're actually dealing with and go from there. There are a couple of OTC pct supps that i've seen working on people extremely well...Triazole and Esto Surpress for starters. And before I get flamed for not suggesting nolva....have a look at the label for Esto Supress....
If he's set on doing this then I say get blood work.
Stephen
Top Contributor
I have a 'friend' who has his own company making pro-hormones which are manufactured by a company who make a lot of these products for various companies, let's just say that what is on the label is not always what's in the tub, I tried two different batches of one of his products and the results were not comparable in the slightest, and that's without mentioning the unscrupulous things the manufacturer has offered to do!
As for superdol (methasteron) I know of several people who have developed (including myself) progesterone induced gyno from it's use which should be highly unlikely if you look at the chemical structure, also it is one of the single strongest compounds I have ever used!
Jethro
Top Contributor
Thanks for all the opinions guys All this info is exactly what I wanted. When I see him today I'll let him read all your responses. He did say yesterday that he will be having bloodwork done before and after, so I do feel a little better about that. I also feel confident that he is smart enough to abort the cycle if the sides become too much for comfort. But I would prefer him to run a cycle of something else for his first time before he dives right into such a strong compound. tbh, it even scares me. I wouldn't take it, and this isn't my first rodeo.
The Red Meat Kid
Top Contributor
Is that why you suggested tren?
Con
Moderator
I read that but kept quiet due to no one else saying any thing
fitdog
Top Contributor
Synonyms:
Methyl stenbolone, methyl sten, 17a-methyl-stenbolone, m-sten, ultradrol
History:
In 1966, researchers at Searle Laboratories set about methodically testing the myotrophic (anabolic) and androgenic effects of a series of A-ring modified androstane derivatives [2]. The compounds they explored reads like a who's who of designer steroids.
Methyl-1-testosterone (M1T), desoxymethyltestosterone (phera), 17a-methyl-1-androstenediol (Alpha One), and a variety of other 1- and 2-dehydro compounds were explored for activity.
The researchers proudly announced that "Even the least active compound in Table 6 possessed a higher relative myotrophic potency than previously has been obtained with several clinically interesting compounds which have been studied under identical conditions, i.e. oxymetholone, oxandrolone, stanozolol, and methandrostenolone." (anadrol, anavar, winstrol, and dianabol).
[2]
Key:
IIe = methyltestosterone
IIa = methyl-1-testosterone
IVd = methyl stenbolone
IIf = alpha one (17a-methyl-1-androstenediol)
IIIa = phera (desoxymethyltestosterone)
As you can see from the table above, methyl sten has somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 the anabolic activity of methyl-1-testosterone, and a similar A:A ratio (by oral administration to castrated rats).
It can also be found in an earlier paper by two of the same authors [3], however at the time it was only studied for activity by intramuscular injection, so the figures it quotes are irrelevant for our purposes. It does, however, give a recipe for producing the compound from superdrol.
Methylsten™ is listed as one of the ingredients in a proprietary blend in a now-discontinued product called Mass Tabs by IDS, though testing has shown that this product (at least the later, bottled batches) in fact contained superdrol [4][5].
Structure and Function:
Structurally resembling the bastard child of M1T and superdrol, methyl sten is a DHT-derivative that is dimethylated at C-2 and C-17 (like superdrol) and has a 1-ene (like methyl-1-test).
It's important to note that while methyl stenbolone is dimethylated at C-2 and C-17 like superdrol, the spatial configuration is different due to the presence of a delta-1 double bond (the C-2 methyl group is therefore planar). This means that methyl sten is a 2,17a-dimethyl rather than a 2a,17a-dimethyl compound.
A more recent (2009) paper on the effects of structural modifications to steroids concluded that the addition of a 2-methyl function to a 1-ene steroid had little effect on the relative potency of the compound [6].
[6]
You'll note however that this is view is taken virtually word for word from the 1961 study that only examined the activity of the compounds by IM injection and is therefore questionable when discussing their oral activity.
[3]
Metabolism:
Since it's DHT-derived, aromatisation is impossible. 5a-reduction is also impossible, since it's already 5a-reduced. The 17a-methyl group greatly increases the bioavailability of the compound by oral administration.
The combination of delta 1-dehydrogenation and 2-methylation is likely to make the A-ring very resistant to metabolism. 3z-,16z-, and 18-hydroxylated metabolites are likely to be the only ones detectable after administration, other than the unchanged compound [7][8].
Effects:
It is a strong oral steroid in the vein of pheraplex, superdrol, and M1T. It should be an excellent bulking compound at an appropriate dosage.
Side Effects:
It is inevitable that the compound will display some degree of hepatotoxicity. This is discussed in some detail on the manufacturer's blog, which I would recommend reading [9].
The standard list of steroidal side-effects listed in the other profiles will also apply to this compound.
Recommended Dosages and Cycle Durations:
These will be formed by the weight of public opinion after enough logs have been recorded. The only confirmed product on the market to contain this compound comes in 4mg caps and recommends dosing at two caps per day, and not to exceed three caps per day. It is likely in my opinion that the "standard dosing" will end up significantly higher (20mg+).
Given that the level of liver toxicity is at this stage unknown, cycles should be kept to four weeks or less, as is usual with a strong methyl such as superdrol or M1T.
Legality:
Methyl sten is not specifically legislated against in either the USA or the UK at the time of writing. Those who are subjected to testing for performance enhancing drugs should avoid this and all other prohormones/designer steroids.
References
[1] Vida J.: Androgens and Anabolic Agents. Academic Press, New York (1969) p. 212.
[2] Acta Endocrinol 1966 53 627-634 & 635-643
[3] J. Org. Chem., 1962, 27 (1), pp 248–253
[4] test results IDS mass tabs - ThermoLife International Forums
[5] Affidavit for bodybuilding.com raid: image 1, image 2, image 3
[6] Steroids 74 (2009) 172–197
[7] J. Steroid Biochem. Mol. Biol. 115 (2009) 44-61.
[8] J. Steroid Biochem. Mol. Biol. 101 (2006) 161–178.
[9] Antaeus Labs: A few words on the hepatotoxicity of 17a-methylated androgens/anabolics
Methyl stenbolone, methyl sten, 17a-methyl-stenbolone, m-sten, ultradrol
History:
In 1966, researchers at Searle Laboratories set about methodically testing the myotrophic (anabolic) and androgenic effects of a series of A-ring modified androstane derivatives [2]. The compounds they explored reads like a who's who of designer steroids.
Methyl-1-testosterone (M1T), desoxymethyltestosterone (phera), 17a-methyl-1-androstenediol (Alpha One), and a variety of other 1- and 2-dehydro compounds were explored for activity.
The researchers proudly announced that "Even the least active compound in Table 6 possessed a higher relative myotrophic potency than previously has been obtained with several clinically interesting compounds which have been studied under identical conditions, i.e. oxymetholone, oxandrolone, stanozolol, and methandrostenolone." (anadrol, anavar, winstrol, and dianabol).
[2]
Key:
IIe = methyltestosterone
IIa = methyl-1-testosterone
IVd = methyl stenbolone
IIf = alpha one (17a-methyl-1-androstenediol)
IIIa = phera (desoxymethyltestosterone)
As you can see from the table above, methyl sten has somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 the anabolic activity of methyl-1-testosterone, and a similar A:A ratio (by oral administration to castrated rats).
It can also be found in an earlier paper by two of the same authors [3], however at the time it was only studied for activity by intramuscular injection, so the figures it quotes are irrelevant for our purposes. It does, however, give a recipe for producing the compound from superdrol.
Methylsten™ is listed as one of the ingredients in a proprietary blend in a now-discontinued product called Mass Tabs by IDS, though testing has shown that this product (at least the later, bottled batches) in fact contained superdrol [4][5].
Structure and Function:
Structurally resembling the bastard child of M1T and superdrol, methyl sten is a DHT-derivative that is dimethylated at C-2 and C-17 (like superdrol) and has a 1-ene (like methyl-1-test).
It's important to note that while methyl stenbolone is dimethylated at C-2 and C-17 like superdrol, the spatial configuration is different due to the presence of a delta-1 double bond (the C-2 methyl group is therefore planar). This means that methyl sten is a 2,17a-dimethyl rather than a 2a,17a-dimethyl compound.
A more recent (2009) paper on the effects of structural modifications to steroids concluded that the addition of a 2-methyl function to a 1-ene steroid had little effect on the relative potency of the compound [6].
[6]
You'll note however that this is view is taken virtually word for word from the 1961 study that only examined the activity of the compounds by IM injection and is therefore questionable when discussing their oral activity.
[3]
Metabolism:
Since it's DHT-derived, aromatisation is impossible. 5a-reduction is also impossible, since it's already 5a-reduced. The 17a-methyl group greatly increases the bioavailability of the compound by oral administration.
The combination of delta 1-dehydrogenation and 2-methylation is likely to make the A-ring very resistant to metabolism. 3z-,16z-, and 18-hydroxylated metabolites are likely to be the only ones detectable after administration, other than the unchanged compound [7][8].
Effects:
It is a strong oral steroid in the vein of pheraplex, superdrol, and M1T. It should be an excellent bulking compound at an appropriate dosage.
Side Effects:
It is inevitable that the compound will display some degree of hepatotoxicity. This is discussed in some detail on the manufacturer's blog, which I would recommend reading [9].
The standard list of steroidal side-effects listed in the other profiles will also apply to this compound.
Recommended Dosages and Cycle Durations:
These will be formed by the weight of public opinion after enough logs have been recorded. The only confirmed product on the market to contain this compound comes in 4mg caps and recommends dosing at two caps per day, and not to exceed three caps per day. It is likely in my opinion that the "standard dosing" will end up significantly higher (20mg+).
Given that the level of liver toxicity is at this stage unknown, cycles should be kept to four weeks or less, as is usual with a strong methyl such as superdrol or M1T.
Legality:
Methyl sten is not specifically legislated against in either the USA or the UK at the time of writing. Those who are subjected to testing for performance enhancing drugs should avoid this and all other prohormones/designer steroids.
References
[1] Vida J.: Androgens and Anabolic Agents. Academic Press, New York (1969) p. 212.
[2] Acta Endocrinol 1966 53 627-634 & 635-643
[3] J. Org. Chem., 1962, 27 (1), pp 248–253
[4] test results IDS mass tabs - ThermoLife International Forums
[5] Affidavit for bodybuilding.com raid: image 1, image 2, image 3
[6] Steroids 74 (2009) 172–197
[7] J. Steroid Biochem. Mol. Biol. 115 (2009) 44-61.
[8] J. Steroid Biochem. Mol. Biol. 101 (2006) 161–178.
[9] Antaeus Labs: A few words on the hepatotoxicity of 17a-methylated androgens/anabolics
fitdog
Top Contributor
The above is actually a copy and paste so goes to henryv, who hopefully will come back on board in the future.
Jethro
Top Contributor
Yeah yeah, I already know I deserve to be railroaded for that comment. And ill take whatever comments you have on that in stride as well. I do appreciate you all holding back though. Personally I feel the tren ultra situation is choosing the lesser of two evils. I realize it is extremely far from ideal to say the least. If there were no problems putting my hands on a long ester test, (not prescription) then I would by all means push that option, and I feel he would gladly change his mind. But seeing as how ATM it is nearly impossible to find any around my area, that option is out. It sucks my shriveled balls that we are forced to make decisions based on availability.
hackskii
Full Member
Probably very harsh actually.
It is not the fact the SERM's are to inhibit estrogen, they are used to allow GnRH to be more sensitive to the receptors in the pituitary.
Clomid specifically would create an estrogen primer at the pituitary unlike nolva.
kuju
Top Contributor
Hmm..ok I get that (and thank you) - but still....using several weeks of aggressive PCT for what is often a short cycle in the first place seems odd to me. Especially when the PCT lasts longer than the initial cycle (which i've seen several times). I struggle to see superdrol (or related compounds) shutting people down more than large doses of test for instance...
Interesting about clomid though...hadn't considred that aspect in this context.
Bottom line for me is - if you're going to use androgens of any kind - get bloodwork. Why guesstimate what state you're in hormonally when doing so could well leave you with other problems by over (or under) doing your PCT. Just my take on it obviously.
With regard to Ultradrol....hmmm. The more I read abotu it the less friendly a compound it seems. I also take issue with "small tweaks" to molecules. "Try our new amazing test boosting muscle building supplement!! We simply fiddled with one aspect of teh molecule so we could get it on teh shelves without being busted but hey...its still basically the same ocmpound right??"
No. It isn't. As an example...thalidomide exists in two forms. One is completely inert (pharmacologically) and the other....well it's not a good thing is it.
I appreciate that's not exactly what ultradrol is but still....
I'm rambling again....maybe if I have my first coffee BEFORE posting......hmmmmmm.............
hackskii
Full Member
Id be willing to bet, superdrol would in fact be more harsh, and further suppress the HPTA than testosterone.
I don't see why some guys use the compounds they use when there is access to better drugs.
I don't see why some guys use the compounds they use when there is access to better drugs.
Jethro
Top Contributor
And therein lies the problem. If he had access, there would have never been a post about this in the first place.