Blast and Cruise

[Hilly]

The trouble is Dig we need to define the 'true' trt level dose; are we talking 250mg Test every three week, every two weeks or every week? 5mg Testogel per day, 10 mg Testogel per day? 1000mg Undeconate every 12, ten or nine weeks?

The above protocols are all prescribed via the NHS in the UK?

Polycythemia (sticky blood) is a real world issue for guys on trt as is a potential for a rise in PSA. (the later is arguable depending on the study you read)

Rather than dribble on I've an interesting link below on trt that may be worth a read for people.

Monitoring Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) by Nelson Vergel

A true trt dose will differ for every1 surely

 

[Viktor]

I cant understand how one can blast with slow acting drugs (sust, deca e.t.c) as these will take a while to kick in and most liley be kicking in during the crusie phase. Does this mean that fast acting esters should be used only during the blast

Originally B&C was used by 'experienced' guys who used shic like protocols for the blas element then returned to a much lower dose followed bu another shic, etc, etc.

Now every man and his dog do it but tend to mistake the original programme and blast on say 500mg of Test then stay on 100mg of Test for a cruise talking themselves into believing that they will recover better.

 

[Viktor]

A true trt dose will differ for every1 surely

It should yes and we also need to consider the reason for trt - primary, secondary or absence. For some guys HCG not test replacement will be a better approach.

However a number of Endos are not happy to take an individualistic approach preferring to believe that a BNF one size fits all regime is 'adequate' for the patient.

As you say 'true' trt should most definitely differ for everyone.

 

[Dig]

Totally agree re the TRT levels, as you say endo's use different methods and my knowledge is much much more limited.

The way i see it is the average male (24-40) quoted to have endo test levels of 300-950ng/dL(i believe?-again could be wrong)

Based on that i use 100mg test e, which taking ester weight into account is around about 10mg per day of test if averaged out(obviously not going to be released at a steady 10mg per day) which if my maths correct would be 1000ng/dL

However after reading the link you posted that is obviously considered too high for TRT which said should be below 750ng/dL

Also in the link it stated that regarding polycythemia 'this problem is not that common in men taking replacement doses of testosterone' which seems generally accepted from other bits ive read (but i havent read that many studies on it so im not saying that as fact).

Is there a difference in polycythemia between people on TRT doses and people who dont need TRT, for simplicity sake if one person is using what equates to 500ng/dL test via replacement therapy and the other person is naturally producing 500ng/dL, is the person using the exogenous test at a higher risk?? If so why?

 

[Viktor]

It's a difficult question to answer in all honesty (especially with my own limited experience) as we know endocrinology with respect to trt is very much still in an infancy period and as such we find that 'cutting edge' thesis are often peer reviewed as not actually standing up under examination.

However Morgentaler states that elevating haematocrits are shown to have greater potential (I don't have the stats to hand) in men receiving synthetic testosterone replacement than men who are producing equivalent levels of test naturally. Is there a correlation between raised E2 following a test jab and EH?

Then on the other hand studies by haematologists have shown some men with borderline hypertension can squeeze some of the plasma out of the circulatory system resulting in a pathological ratio between plasma and red blood cells rather than an excessive absolute number of red blood cells. The result from this is polycthemia.

I personally don't have a definitive answer for your question mate.

 

[Dig]

It's a difficult question to answer in all honesty (especially with my own limited experience) as we know endocrinology with respect to trt is very much still in an infancy period and as such we find that 'cutting edge' thesis are often peer reviewed as not actually standing up under examination.

However Morgentaler states that elevating haematocrits are shown to have greater potential (I don't have the stats to hand) in men receiving synthetic testosterone replacement than men who are producing equivalent levels of test naturally. Is there a correlation between raised E2 following a test jab and EH?

Then on the other hand studies by haematologists have shown some men with borderline hypertension can squeeze some of the plasma out of the circulatory system resulting in a pathological ratio between plasma and red blood cells rather than an excessive absolute number of red blood cells. The result from this is polycthemia.

I personally don't have a definitive answer for your question mate.

Interesting stuff!!

 

[Viktor]

Interesting stuff!!

I'm just an interested lay person so my own research is purely that - my own; and as such I don't claim to hold genuine credibility in this field.

However if you want to discuss rainforest ecosystems I'm your man.

 

[Rick]

who knows? do you? i dont. tell me tell me tell me

I have seen atleast 1 or 2 studies showing that hpta/lh can be boosted or made to work while you are on cycle. so to me for people wanting to run longer cycles(for instance CON who likes to or used to) I would run some clomid/hcg for 2-4 week periods every so often and reduce my gear load. this would run in line with a reduced period in training.

I guess you could call this phase a cruise if you wanted

Interesting....... in these studies how did they run the HCG and Clomid and in a layman's what were results/benefits?

 

[neil-vxr]

^Do pro's stay on year round?

My ex training partner was an ifbb pro and lived in california for years after he left the army and got to know a lot of the pro's that trained around that area and he talked to gary strydom a lot and gary said you need to be on something all year round. so some of the pro's do

 

[Con]

As far as hematocrit goes, 1/2 or 1 grape fruit per day will help keep the numbers down to a healthy range.
Blood donation lowers it nicely also.
Personally i don't think low test is a legitimate problem at least not in the short run.
Now if NO test is being made as in under 100ngl then yes go for it.
Muscle size and test is not as related as many would make out on these boards.
Search for castrated rats and reistance training they gained muscle just fine.

Myostatin and other factors are what limit growth hence some guys taking tons of drugs and gaining little and others taking a drop and gaining tons. Genetics rules all.........that said with the newer non AAS drugs there will be a big change to sports as a whole.

 

[Viktor]

As far as hematocrit goes, 1/2 or 1 grape fruit per day will help keep the numbers down to a healthy range.
Blood donation lowers it nicely also.
Personally i don't think low test is a legitimate problem at least not in the short run.
Now if NO test is being made as in under 100ngl then yes go for it.
Muscle size and test is not as related as many would make out on these boards.
Search for castrated rats and reistance training they gained muscle just fine.

Myostatin and other factors are what limit growth hence some guys taking tons of drugs and gaining little and others taking a drop and gaining tons. Genetics rules all.........that said with the newer non AAS drugs there will be a big change to sports as a whole.

Excellent post mate, I didn't know about grapefruit.

Giving blood (one litre is normally recommended) is a good way to fight hematocrit, but donation is not possible if you are taking injectable steroids.