Gyno Questions

[MLK]

On my last cycle I got gyno which I pretty much got rid off (eventually!) with letro and nolva. During cycle I was using WC adex at 0.5mg mon/wed/fri. The first thing I tried to do to combat the gyno was upping the adex to 1mg ed but this didn't seem to do much. I also had some lactation which must have been from the tren e (1st time using tren). I don't know if the gyno could have been caused by the test and dbol too or just the tren alone. The lactation went away with caber but gyno was still there til I hit it with letro and nolva.

So that was last cycle, almost a year ago, now I'm in my 4th week of next cycle which is test only, 1g a week (2.5ml t400). First 3 weeks were 600mg test pw and 100mg var ed, so only up to 1g this week. Just today I have noticed my nips (mainly left) are a bit tender so I'm terrified I'm gonna develop tits again, took ages to get rid of it before! Since start of cycle I've been taking one tab WC aromasin e2d.

So what do I do now?:

1. up aromasin to 1 tab ed

2. get some pharma adex/aromasin (been a lot of talk on here recently about UGL AI's being crap)

3. get letro (not too keen on this option but if it has to be done...)

I have no idea if nolva would be a good idea, just desperately want to get on top of this gyno as it came out of nowhere on last cycle and developed very fast.

Cheers.

 

[ricky23]

yes i would run nolva ed 40mg asap. letro or nolva not both. upping aromasin would be a good idea too. once symptoms subsise (normally week-10 days) drop nolva to 20mg.
letro and a.i's are not tissue specific they will only reduce estrogen from building whereas nolva will bind to breast tissue. both have worked clinically to reduce gyno.

 

[MLK]

yes i would run nolva ed 40mg asap. letro or nolva not both. upping aromasin would be a good idea too. once symptoms subsise (normally week-10 days) drop nolva to 20mg.
letro and a.i's are not tissue specific they will only reduce estrogen from building whereas nolva will bind to breast tissue. both have worked clinically to reduce gyno.

Thanks mate.

Just to make it clear that before when I ran letro and nolva they weren't at same time. I did a course of letro which worked v well but suffered from some estro rebound despite tapering so that's where the nolva came in.

I'll up aromasin to 1 tab ed until I get nolva. When I drop nolva down to 20mg how long do I stay at that dose for?

 

[ricky23]

for a week or 10 days to be safe, make sure your aromasin dose stays increased throughout and keep nolva on hand

 

[MLK]

Spot on, exactly the advice I needed.

Do you feel high dose AI really hinders gains much? IME they don't as last few weeks of last cycle I made awesome gains with adex at 1mg ed. Saying that it was WC adex and could have been bunk?

 

[ricky23]

Spot on, exactly the advice I needed.

Do you feel high dose AI really hinders gains much? IME they don't as last few weeks of last cycle I made awesome gains with adex at 1mg ed. Saying that it was WC adex and could have been bunk?

no i dont unless the dose is too high. 1mg a day adex shown in clinical studies to only reduce estrogen from 40-60% in healthy young males, can only imagine it being even less when taking supraphysiological levels of test, still plenty of estrogen for growth.
although 1mg adex/day reduces igf-1 by 18% so people saying adex over nolva for gains due to nolva's igf-1 decrease maybe wrong because there isnt a significant difference in igf-1 reduction between the two. plus androgens will make up for igf-1 loss.
also studies show serum igf-1 is unimportant for muscle gains whereas workload intramuscular induced igf-1 is and anti-e's only effect serum igf.

from personal experience i grow better when using nolva on cycle instead of adex, but that could be because aromatization may occur less with me and a.i reduces too muh estrogen for me. it really is individual with anti-e's. but in the grand scheme of things it wont make much of a difference

 

[Phmg]

Nolva will get rid of excess oestrogen in the system mate, adex aromasin only stops more being produced.

Tbh, I get sensitivity and lumps form at som stage on every cycle. They always seem to go on their own when things balance out.

 

[MLK]

Nolva will get rid of excess oestrogen in the system mate, adex aromasin only stops more being produced.

Tbh, I get sensitivity and lumps form at som stage on every cycle. They always seem to go on their own when things balance out.

Could be the case that this (so far very minimal) gyno will sort itself out too but after last gyno experience I don't want to take the risk tbh, gonna get on nolva as soon as I can get hold of it.

 

[MLK]

no i dont unless the dose is too high. 1mg a day adex shown in clinical studies to only reduce estrogen from 40-60% in healthy young males, can only imagine it being even less when taking supraphysiological levels of test, still plenty of estrogen for growth.
although 1mg adex/day reduces igf-1 by 18% so people saying adex over nolva for gains due to nolva's igf-1 decrease maybe wrong because there isnt a significant difference in igf-1 reduction between the two. plus androgens will make up for igf-1 loss.
also studies show serum igf-1 is unimportant for muscle gains whereas workload intramuscular induced igf-1 is and anti-e's only effect serum igf.

from personal experience i grow better when using nolva on cycle instead of adex, but that could be because aromatization may occur less with me and a.i reduces too muh estrogen for me. it really is individual with anti-e's. but in the grand scheme of things it wont make much of a difference

Interesting.

Making me wonder why more people don't run low dose nolva throughout cycles. When I drop nolva to 20mg could I maybe just keep nolva at this dose for duration of cycle instead of running aromasin at 1mg ed? (would probs use up what I have left of the aromasin anyway)

 

[ricky23]

Nolva will get rid of excess oestrogen in the system mate, adex aromasin only stops more being produced.

Tbh, I get sensitivity and lumps form at som stage on every cycle. They always seem to go on their own when things balance out.

nolva has no effect on aromatization, it will only stop excess estrogen from binding to certain tissue i.e breast tissue. it acts as an estrogen agonist and antagonist in certain tissue.
a.i's prevent aromatization but are not tissue specific.

 

[ricky23]

Interesting.

Making me wonder why more people don't run low dose nolva throughout cycles. When I drop nolva to 20mg could I maybe just keep nolva at this dose for duration of cycle instead of running aromasin at 1mg ed? (would probs use up what I have left of the aromasin anyway)

that depends on your goals. running 20mg nolva will prevent gyno but will not prevent estrogen build up so you may still suffer other sides from estrogen i.e water retention, increased b.p. then again you may not as estrogen may not get that high.
aromasin will prevent estrogen build up, nolva will not.

 

[MLK]

for a week or 10 days to be safe, make sure your aromasin dose stays increased throughout and keep nolva on hand

Ok so today was my 8th day of 40mg nolva and doesn't seem to be getting any better, still just as tender. Time for letro or wait a bit yet?

It's only my left nip that has a tender lump, other one is totally fine!

 

[ricky23]

Ok so today was my 8th day of 40mg nolva and doesn't seem to be getting any better, still just as tender. Time for letro or wait a bit yet?

It's only my left nip that has a tender lump, other one is totally fine!

i would keep nolva at 20mg for a week to 2 weeks while starting letro asap at 2.5mg ed. after a week or 2 get off the nolva and keep letro at that dose til it subsides, no need to taper up but will need to taper off. once everything has calmed down taper off letro slowly and introduce nolva back in at 20mg to prevent rbound.